POE Heading to D3 Land...please reconsider

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Chris wrote:

This thread has a lot of good feedback. One thing to note though - we haven't changed general drop rates since Closed Beta. Almost everything (magics, rares, uniques, currency, gems) are exactly the same as they have been for a long time.

That doesn't diminish the argument at all of course - we will endeavour to make the game more rewarding - but I figured it was good to mention that we haven't reduced drop rates for some unexplained reason.

It's proof that lady luck swings like a pendulum; sometimes in favor, sometimes not. RNG is terrible for things that players consider essential. I played for a couple months before OB, and now I have a level 72 and a 60 witch (with a mix of others) and I've yet to see numerous gems drop. (Chaos Damage, a few others)

(P.s.: gems should be able to drop pre leveled at higher levels so we don't have to start from one if we happen to get lucky and find a quality gem AND one that's leveled a few times.)

You can complete the game and do endgame content with self-found & crafted gear. You couldn't do that in D3 in release. I have played both games, I could just dream to achieve the same in D3 of what I have achieved in PoE with the same amount of time played (I'm playing PoE way more casual than I played D3 for months).

I just don't see where you are coming from with "you can't get better in PoE", this is not true in my experience at all, but that depends on how you define "getting better". If you define getting better with "rain of excellent rares and uniques" sure you are right, but if you define it with "getting better to complete gradually higher content" is perfectly fine, needless to say this is demonstrated continuously by races. Now as for endgame, that's a total different thing (like access to endgame content, higher maps etc.); it's also arguable the dependence of rng in certain aspects (linking, colouring sockets or finding certain skill gems).

I'm not closed to changes and I also would like to have other leagues which are easier on some aspects (personally I dislike the IIQ/IIR mechanics but I see why it's done like it's done, in theory is a trade off), but changing fundamentally the current leagues would even screw more things, why bother finding stuff when you can just easily trade it for orbs and the gamne is flooded with items, this is a fundamental problem some people fails to address.

There is an ARPG which already has loot like what you are saying, is Torchlight 2, and the player retention and capture has not been higher or better (could be due to other issues though). And this game is not competing with console-like games neither is targeted for that player base.

I was playing tl2 before PoE and the game is quite good but the variety of things to do in PoE is way better and PoE has a greater variety in customizing your character plus the dark setting which is graphically much better than Tl2.

Nonetheless I played through normal difficulty with each avatar and it was really fun but than I got to know about PoE and the open Beta-typically through the D3 Forum- and gave it a try and so far I´m through normal dificulty with all 6 Characters, but I really had to fight myself going into cruel with that experienced desynchs and disconnects because of the Experience loss at death. So, I started with my witch who I ecpected to be the easiest one to come through and the medicine man killed her with ease, one moment I had 5 Zombies and 4 skeletons around me next moment I got hit twice and over. So the witch is now in the forest
encampment time for the duellist to follow up. But going into Fetid killing necro in the fourth attempt seeing only white unsocketed trash and comparing that to the experience loss is quite annoying.
I mean if that necro had at least dropped something good to make up for the loss of experience, ok. I do not expect every unique monster to drop a unique, nor do I think that every rare monster should give me some rares or blue ones set up a bunch of currency, but that kind of experience is way too foul for an arpg, so the timeframe is set, I expect triple G to get us better drop rates if not maybe a bit of koop with my friend and then ciao!

yea... especially currency drops are just pathetic.

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KarraKurri wrote:

yea... especially currency drops are just pathetic.

How much currency would you like to drop? I know people who farm 8+ chaos per hour (not multiboxing), is that not enough?

We should not start to compare other peoples findings the gaming experience is a personal one for each of us and some people usually are playing better or have more luck than others.

After not finding a better wand for my witch i bought a good looking one all sockets already linked and the right colours then spent an alchemy and all three chaos i had found to make it at least acceptable!

Enough?

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knac84 wrote:

You can complete the game and do endgame content with self-found & crafted gear. You couldn't do that in D3 in release.

This is at worst wrong and at best apples to oranges.

I played both self found, over 3k hours in D3 and over 1k so far in PoE.

First of all, we can say this is wrong, because you could complete D3 in self found gear at release, I did. At least I was fully self found and solo progressing Act 3 when the nerf hit. The only reason I hadn't done the cheese-to-Diablo was because I would rather every single possible affix combo pre Act 4 end boss was achievable first, something I was making great progress with.

Secondly, this is apples and oranges because in Diablo the end game was before completing the Acts, the end game, harder content than bosses, was the content before them. In PoE, you complete the Acts THEN go on to do maps.

If anything, I'd have had everything chalked up in D3 long before PoE, simply because I don't have access to everything in PoE. The end maps themselves are at the moment a myth to me (highest I've seen is 74 and right now the highest I've got is 68).

In any case, both require/d a HUGE time investment, for self found only. One that I'm fine with, I actually love slow progression because it eats the time I have to throw at gaming.
But that doesn't mean I'm ever happy in a progression system that favours trading over killing, looting and crafting. If not only for those with similar playstyles to myself but without the time allocation.

Edit, thinking about it.
What you say probably appears true, to you, right now.
Because self found progression is faster in PoE than in 'vanilla' D3, to start with.
The truth, when you have put the time I have into both, is that while D3 progression slowed down in late game, PoE progression slows down too, but much, much more and quite early to a halt unless you trade.

Woohoooo just killed the Necro in Fetid again only two deaths I´m going to learn this game.
And, two blue items and an orb of Augmentation ok not really good but the best of all I got level 40 just before entering Fetid soooo triple G couldn´t steal my experience Yeehaaa.
Sorry guys, just a bit of the everlasting child in the old bag trying to have some fun in PoE.

I mean, I wouldn´t say that the undead rhoa I pick from time to time as my pet kills faster than I do, but my shockwave totem surely does, must be the melee splash added to my doublestrike.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Drop rates are per monster death. They did substantially increase monster difficulty. More difficulty = slower, more careful pace = reduced drops per unit time.

I don't understand why they did this. The consensus on this forum seems to be that the game was more fun and builds were more diverse back in CB, when the mobs didn't hit as hard.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

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knac84 wrote:

You can complete the game and do endgame content with self-found & crafted gear. You couldn't do that in D3 in release.

This is at worst wrong and at best apples to oranges.

I played both self found, over 3k hours in D3 and over 1k so far in PoE.

First of all, we can say this is wrong, because you could complete D3 in self found gear at release, I did. At least I was fully self found and solo progressing Act 3 when the nerf hit. The only reason I hadn't done the cheese-to-Diablo was because I would rather every single possible affix combo pre Act 4 end boss was achievable first, something I was making great progress with.

Off course you can complete (or could, in D3 release) with self-found, it's all a matter of time invested. What I'm saying though is that with the amount I have played in both games, is way easier (in my experience) to equip and progress in PoE than in D3 in release (something they have been changing and fixing and are still doing). And progress with several classes and build (true, some more difficult than other) and not recurring to couple skills and tricks (lol D3 hydra LoK bug) to overcome content.

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Secondly, this is apples and oranges because in Diablo the end game was before completing the Acts, the end game, harder content than bosses, was the content before them. In PoE, you complete the Acts THEN go on to do maps.

If anything, I'd have had everything chalked up in D3 long before PoE, simply because I don't have access to everything in PoE. The end maps themselves are at the moment a myth to me (highest I've seen is 74 and right now the highest I've got is 68).

True that, it's a problem, and they have acknowledged it. I also believe accessing endgame content is too hard and have said in this same thread. But we are talking mostly about items, orbs, etc. here, not the 'map problem' (as they have said, maps, and hence levelling, are locked behind the item system to make harder the access to higher ilvl gear and make it harder to equip better gear, and that's a bad decision tieing both together).

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In any case, both require/d a HUGE time investment, for self found only. One that I'm fine with, I actually love slow progression because it eats the time I have to throw at gaming.
But that doesn't mean I'm ever happy in a progression system that favours trading over killing, looting and crafting. If not only for those with similar playstyles to myself but without the time allocation.

This problem is not going away unless you devalue all the items in the game and flood the game with items (literally). It's a matter of mathematics, there is no way around it in an online, persistent game. Buffing drops 'a bit' won't change it, trading for the gear you need is always going to be more efficient than finding/crafting it as long as you are dealing with randomness and probability.

You only rise the expectations floor in gear (which is exactly what has happened over time with D3, making it even worse to play the game to get gear, and this is whya lot of people stopped playing after the constant nerfs to difficulty, because it was pointless to play the game no matter what you find there is always something better out there). The advantage of PoE over D3 is the market visibility and easiness factor due to the no existence of an AH, but people will still check for gear to trade for and will see better rolled gear than they have, and will be more efficient to trade for that to try finding or crafting it, it is already happening and alot of people complaining about it in default league.

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Edit, thinking about it.
What you say probably appears true, to you, right now.
Because self found progression is faster in PoE than in 'vanilla' D3, to start with.
The truth, when you have put the time I have into both, is that while D3 progression slowed down in late game, PoE progression slows down too, but much, much more and quite early to a halt unless you trade.

Progression in items or in levelling? There are build out there which require very little gear to succeed at even the hardest maps (ofc if you are careful and don't play reckless). Mixing thing here, not what I'm talking about, I agree with you that map system is broken.