POE Heading to D3 Land...please reconsider

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Alhoon wrote:

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KarraKurri wrote:

Most builds cant go past mercilles selffound. Stop this. If you do something it doesnt make problem to dissapear.

Most builds in Diablo 2 can't finish the game with self found gear either.

Actually they can, and with much more success than PoE. I know because I personally remember doing so

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Alhoon wrote:

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KarraKurri wrote:

Even if you play cookie-cutter if you are unlucky with drops you can hit a wall in mercilles (for example gg with LA build without good rolled Thicket Bow).
Some build also requires 5 and 6 links.

Same applies to Diablo 2 also, but it's even more extreme there. Some exceptional single target melee builds (Smiter, Zealot, Fury Wolf etc.) are perhaps the best at killing ubers, but they can't do anything without great gear. Try to take any character with bad gear to act 1 Hell and have a first Zombie you come across hit you. Don't do that on HC though.

Yes and guess what, due to the way that loot and drop is done in D2, you can get self found great gear in solo play. Its already been stated why many times before. D2's loot drops and crafting mechanics are vastly different to PoE. Things like lower ranges on mods on gear, tailored drops, deterministic crafting etc etc all contribute to the ability to get "good" gear in D2 without having to resort to trading or excessive grind

The whole issue is that the gear that drops (relative to how hard the content is) is shit in PoE compared to D2. Ontop of that, even though the crafting system in PoE is innovative, its so RNG prone that no one really crafts above level 50 unless they have excessive currency (which is unlike D2 entirely). The only type of crafting that is commonly done in that level is the minor crafting on things like maps

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I think we need to stop comparing this game D2 which was the best ARPG ever made big shoes to fill id be happy if this game was 1 tenth as good.

Right here.

It really is that simple, imo. D2 is legendary. POE, meh, its good, but cmon folks. Its an infant. With fairly large issues, and some not so large. Even when the day comes that D2 is out classed forever more, well guess what? It will still be a legendary game, cause it did it right, way back when.

I have said it before, and i know theres a small brigade of folks that disagree, but POE is not better than D2, in fact, to this day, theres a very damn good reason games of this nature are referred to as DCLONES.

I mean, dont get me wrong. POE is a decent game for sure. IMO, prolly one of the better of its kind. But D2 has a status, that imo, cant really truly ever be dethroned, because while games today are still fighting with each other, trying to come out on top, D2 is still sitting there as proud as can be, 12 fucking years later. And its still being compared side by side modern games? WTF...

haha , I mean, I cant really say much more than that. The proof is in the pudding. Sure, theres other games selling way more copies these days, but there also wasnt nearly the number of people jacked into the HUB back in those days either, after all, we're talking a fairly niche type of game here.

edit - I want to add though, that many people feel differently about one thing regarding D2, and that is the addition of LOD and the many patches that came after. Some people believe that D2 was the legendary game it was without the expansion, and others felt it was LOD, while even one more group feels that the game was only legendary after the many patches it received.

Anyways, nough /off topic from me.

Well the thing is that D2 hit the nail on the head in regards to reward:loot ratio, and its a very fine line in that area for aRPGS

Most other aRPGS go too far one way or another way, PoE is one of those aRPGs where its simply not rewarding enough (there are others that go the other direction too). TL2 is probably the only modern aRPG that matches D2 in this area, and its not hard to see why, the people that created D2 (Blizzard North) made TL/TL2

The only thing with TL2 is that the customization sucks balls + low amount of classes. It also has very outdated mechanics (such as potions as items, and incredibly amount of useless loot, at least that can be remedied with your pet though). If TL2 had the amount of customization that D2 had + leagues/races, it would be on equal footing (at least the customization problem for TL2 can be fixed with modding, which is fully supported by the devs of TL, Runic). If TL2 did that + removed outdated mechanics + introduced innovative ones (like PoE did), it would have been one of the best games for its times

Synergies mod for TL2 is, for example, the most amount of fun I have had in a while. I don't really have that much "fun" in PoE anymore, its definitely getting worse in this regard

Sorry, again a little off topic, but... I rather enjoyed TL, and TL2, but the staying power of both games, was hampered by a lack of online controlled economics. I mean, sure, theres always been shady shit, and real money working its way into these games, dupes, etc etc, but i would rather play a game that at least offers the community, than one that doesnt.

POE, D2, D3, and any others using a realm controlled economy, have more staying power at the end of the day for me. Theres just something thrilling about farming goodies and trading / selling your wares.

There isnt anything thrilling about AH Tycoons though O.o (or maybe its the implementation that Blizz used?) Its funny, cause when i look back on the years i played WoW, i never had a problem with that AH...

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JoannaDark wrote:

Sorry, again a little off topic, but... I rather enjoyed TL, and TL2, but the staying power of both games, was hampered by a lack of online controlled economics. I mean, sure, theres always been shady shit, and real money working its way into these games, dupes, etc etc, but i would rather play a game that at least offers the community, than one that doesnt.

POE, D2, D3, and any others using a realm controlled economy, have more staying power at the end of the day for me. Theres just something thrilling about farming goodies and trading / selling your wares.

There isnt anything thrilling about AH Tycoons though O.o

TBH, D2 didn't really have an online economy either. I mean it "existed", but it was basically created by hardcore players outside of the game. There is as much online economy in TL2 as there is in D2 in regards to how its been designed into the game.

The thing that put me off TL/TL2 was its severely lacking customization. Both games have really generic classes with skills that can't really be augmented. D2 was similar, but it had way more classes, and item drops did a better job in adding some customization.

The only aRPG games with a proper online economy would be D3 and PoE (in its own weird way with private stash tabs and forums). D2's economy formulated just due to how popular the game was AND the fact it was online. The game was never meant to have an online "economy", just online "trading", and those are completely different things

As an example, I have played TQ for ages, and its due to its customization. Similar to TL, it didn't have any online economy. I would reroll characters and make unique builds in that game. The amount of customization that TQ had was ridiculous

Also this isn't offtopic, read the thread title =D

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As an example, I have played TQ for ages, and its due to its customization. Similar to TL, it didn't have any online economy. I would reroll characters and make unique builds in that game. The amount of customization that TQ had was ridiculous

Last post for the evening (I hope). Stuff to do.

I admit this. Im a hobbiest game maker of sorts, versed in many areas of game development, jack of all trades, and master of none. Im also a hobbiest Modder of various games, AND, im also a hobbiest tinkerer of other peoples creations.

I have no self control when it comes to ripping apart, godifying myself, etc, etc. TQ didnt have much stay power, needless to say.

With that said, I truly appreciate the companies that host online realms with a level of control to the environment. These are the games that most attract me as a gamer in my spare time. They have a stay power that the others dont. Oddly, in the case of D2, it offered both, and i really enjoyed that.

As a tinkerer, lots of games attract me, as theres always something to learn from one. Even if its what not to do. :P

Man if only i coulda modded my Intellivision when i was a kid. Haha.

Cheers.

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Charan wrote:

Curious why you'd have me pegged as a trader.

Hah, I thought about that after my post.
And, you know, I have no idea why.

I think I'm just so used to trading being like the holy grail of aRPGs (seen as the basis more than killing in an unofficial way) protected so fiercely by so many players and backed by developers, CM's and others in power. I guess I see you as one of the latter.

It was one of those 'Wow, that's a surprise, hmm, but why is it a surprise' moments.

I think that the problem centers around how bad the crafting is in PoE. With the massive item diversity in PoE, waiting around for a drop you can use will always be cumbersome and boring.


Spamming chaos orbs in hopes of getting your desired mods is exactly the same thing except accelerated and expensive.




More interesting crafting please.

You can't finish the game in self found gear.

^This isn't really a statement one can make.

There are so many variables.
Skill tree allotment.
Gear used (type).
Gems used.
Player capability
Time played.
Desync.

I have an 85 ele wander, arguably the most (rare) gear dependent build out there (GGGBRR on pure Str chest anyone?) He is 100% self found with all 20 quality gems, 4 off colour 6L chest, 7 auras, 3k mana, 4k life, 12k+ ST dps, 3.5k+ GMP dps, he's a god.

But I have in my favour, time played (insane /played).
I also have against me, terrible desync such that he is brick walled (and mostly shelved) at 85. He can do any content in game but can't gain xp at a rate that would beat an inevitable desync death.

I have an 83 pulser, again 100% self found, this guy will get further than the wander, that's for sure, just because his desync survival is better.

What one could say, is.. one can't finish the game self found with a reasonable time allotment and a reasonably non-cookie-cutter-OP-spec. But to say this, we need defined parameters of what is reasonably acceptable for all the variables, we don't have those.

Anyway, I do agree that, for example crafting right now is pretty much non-existent through dropped orbs. I'll have well over 1000 hours in PoE so far since OB (mad I know) and I think I found and used 8 exalts and none of them did any good. And as always, in a free trade game, trading is always an easier, faster, safer way to progress. There's a reason the most wealthy people IRL don't do the manual work. This is kinda wrong in an aRPG (imho, but accepted it's the norm) that the best way to advance gear wise is to not kill monsters, then the best way to advance xp wise is to overgear with the former.

Crafting is non existent because its

1. RNG Prone
2. Destructive, instead of determined improvement

As long as this remains, crafting is not going to be done by the majority of PoE players unless PoE increases drops of orbs by ridiculous levels, which obviously causes its own issues