POE Heading to D3 Land...please reconsider

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Charan wrote:

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deteego wrote:

D3 has still a massive plus on PoE when it comes to actual gameplay, you don't really have the single skill spamming scenario that you have in PoE unless you are ridiculously overgeared

A plus more than evened out by the minus of an itemisation system based around forcing usage of a meta-game auction house. And that was after release; PoE's a ways off that.

True, PoE's itemization system is fantastic in design, however it (like the skilldrasill) comes to moot when you consider how shit drops are and the state of the economy

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Charan wrote:

I suppose I'll stick to my basic digs here and say that, as a solo player primarily, world-only skill gem drops and disappointing rare-monster yield kill-for-kill without serious IIQ/IIR buffing remain my biggest personal gripe with the game. The former restricts build potential to luck of drops and the latter is just disheartening at times.

The game needs this, or some crafting system where I can go to a vendor and say "I want this gear with very high priority on mods x,y,z". It also needs a massive overhaul in how loot and trade works in general

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Charan wrote:

And since I don't consider either a systemic flaw, I originally responded to what the OP wrote and not their topic title. I'm fairly I pointed out how needlessly incendiary it was. The fact that the thread has survived so far despite said title is testament to the widespread agreement with the OP's argument rather than the topic title.

Flaws don't need to be systematic to create massive issues. Even the smallest flaw can cause the biggest of problems

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Charan wrote:

As for why it didn't feel this way in CB, I am simply not sure. Smaller economy? More familiar progression of 2 acts four times, then maps? I'm frequently seeing issues from solo people regarding sudden spikes in difficulty not from act to act but zone to zone, which is indicative of insufficient testing of difficulty scaling with the 3 x 3 system.

Yup, this is a result of many things, inclduing
- Loot has been massively lowered (in general)
- Damage has been universally increased by massive levels (for god knows what reason), to the point where the game has reached the apt "path of life nodes" nickname

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Charan wrote:

Something has definitely changed and the transition from then to now remains a very bumpy one.

Which is understandable when going from CB -> OB. However GGG has been completely silent on any of these issues apart from melee (which even with the new skill gems, one of them being a complete joke, did little to fix the problem). For example was their intention in butchering the loot drops due to an online economy or is there another reason? Are the loot drops dependant on the online economy by some hidden formula like D3 is?

These are all the questions that need to be answered. People can deal with a game being in a shitty state due to massive changes, but they want to hear whats being planned about it and what the game devs thoughts are

At this stage, Blizzard is light years ahead of GGG in this regard. GGG was very good up until OB, then they wen't completely silent. At least Blizzard acknowledges their issues almost immediately, and does give insights on how to fix them

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deteego wrote:

At least Blizzard acknowledges their issues almost immediately, and does give insights on how to fix them

...uhm...okay.

Sorry, the rest of your post was fine...well, other than confusing systemic for systematic and mistaking why I'm okay with the flaws since they're not systemic (systemic flaws typically can't be fixed: see D3's itemisation+AH, simple example).

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Charan wrote:

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deteego wrote:

At least Blizzard acknowledges their issues almost immediately, and does give insights on how to fix them

...uhm...okay.

Seriously, go read D3's patch notes. They are alike a complete essay with a detailed analysis of why they did things

For example, when they implemented a paragorn system, they gave insights into the system months before it heppened (iirc), and when the patch came out, they gave details on why they implemented that system in particular

GGG was like this, but after OB they went all weird and stuff.

The general point I am making is that if you screw up stuff this massively, you need to be completely open as to why and what you are going to do about it

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Charan wrote:

Sorry, the rest of your post was fine...well, other than confusing systemic for systematic and mistaking why I'm okay with the flaws since they're not systemic (systemic flaws typically can't be fixed: see D3's itemisation+AH, simple example).

My bad, misunderstood what you said

I have always said that PoE's itemization in basis has great potential, but they actually need to get there to get anything useful out of it

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deteego wrote:

Seriously, go read D3's patch notes. They are alike a complete essay with a detailed analysis of why they did things

For example, when they implemented a paragorn system, they gave insights into the system months before it heppened (iirc), and when the patch came out, they gave details on why they implemented that system in particular

GGG was like this, but after OB they went all weird and stuff.

Oh, I do read them. They're very well written, mainly because I'm willing to bet Blizzard has a team of people pretty much devoted to such things. I still question your idea of expedient and communicative, however. Further, they weren't patching in new content every week. Apples and Oranges? Maybe not, but at least Pink Ladies and Granny Smiths.

After OB, GGG was under a metric fucktonne more pressure to step up their game when they were already running at full speed, full capacity near the end of CB. They didn't go 'weird'; they got bombarded and still haven't come out of the bunkers for the most part. Which is fine by me, provided they're in there doing the work. And I know they are.

This comes back to what I said here.

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Charan wrote:

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deteego wrote:

Seriously, go read D3's patch notes. They are alike a complete essay with a detailed analysis of why they did things

Oh, I do read them. They're very well written, mainly because I'm willing to bet Blizzard has a team of people pretty much devoted to such things. I still question your idea of expedient and communicative, however. Further, they weren't patching in new content every week. Apples and Oranges? Maybe not, but at least Pink Ladies and Granny Smiths.

Actually its a single person that writes them, normally lead game designer or someone along those lines

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Charan wrote:

After OB, GGG was under a metric fucktonne more pressure to step up their game when they were already running at full speed, full capacity near the end of CB. They didn't go 'weird'; they got bombarded and still haven't come out of the bunkers for the most part. Which is fine by me, provided they're in there doing the work. And I know they are.

This comes back to what I said here.

Writing a single post (even if its short) to comment on stuff like this takes 20 minutes. That 20 minutes massively pays off for itself in the long run, compared to them not doing it.

It would mean that players keep faith in the game, which is the thing that PoE, as an indie game, needs the most

You would be surprised how detrimental lack of communication can effect the game

Well, as much as i hate to, i kinda gotta lean towards charans feelings about the communication from Blizzard. I follow Blizzard closely, and all i ever see is a buncha "were tossing it around", "we have thought about that", "were not sure", "heres a patch containing things we cut from the beta...". Ok, that last ones fabricated, but we get the drift. But, im not honestly gonna say GGGs is any better or worse.

I will just say, that both have a bit of a history of ignoring the serious pressing issues, that to many are the most important, and chatting about what the hell ever else in other random misc threads. Not that theres anything wrong with those threads... but?

Anyways, i think all these companies have some serious pondering to do about how, what, and where their heading. And who they wanna bring along.

At the end of the day, its their decision. Our decision is to decide if we like their decisions. Some will, some wont. Hell, even if i end up being turned off of the final produced version of POE, i wont regret nothing. The games free, GGG has some solid ideas, and an awsome NO P2W stance (barring all you bastad cheatas out there, you know who you are), and for that i congratulate them. The game? Time will tell. Meh.

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JoannaDark wrote:

Well, im glad someone finally said it. I thought this very same thing for quite some time. I mean, along comes OB, A3 is bloody atrociously out of curve with the previous two acts, and yes, the drop rates, and successful craft rates are absolutely terrible.

I mean, the game base is all about crafting, yet it is next to never, that one crafts a piece and can easily reattain that value back on that market.

I dunno, but IMO, what started out as a completely awsome experience, has turned into ...

...something less than awesome.

Sorry for the creative editing, but I completely agreed with your post up to this point.

Also wanted to add my +1 to the OP and Charan's subsequent post.

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deteego wrote:

Actually its a single person that writes them, normally lead game designer or someone along those lines

Yes but that one person is probably fed all the relevant information in likely a much more comprehensive form than Chris receives his. No one would deny that Blizzard is a well-oiled machine of many years' experience. We're back to apples and apples here...

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deteego wrote:

Writing a single post (even if its short) to comment on stuff like this takes 20 minutes. That 20 minutes massively pays off for itself in the long run, compared to them not doing it.

It would mean that players keep faith in the game, which is the thing that PoE, as an indie game, needs the most

You would be surprised how detrimental lack of communication can effect the game

I really wouldn't. What I don't understand with where you're going is the implication that Chris doesn't post much. I'm fairly sure he's a heck of a lot more communicative day to day than The Other Wilson ever was. Chris is his own Bashiok. What you think takes 20 minutes can sometimes take a lot longer as the wording is considered, the precise amount of information to divulge is tested.

I could pass this onto the devs and they might even comment -- it's certainly been a very worthy thread for cogent, civil feedback. But I don't think it's anything they don't ultimately know or haven't read before. It's been more of a vent thread than anything. I would feel like I were wasting Chris' time passing this one on, compared to more pressing issues.

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Charan wrote:

I really wouldn't. What I don't understand with where you're going is the implication that Chris doesn't post much. I'm fairly sure he's a heck of a lot more communicative day to day than The Other Wilson ever was. Chris is his own Bashiok. What you think takes 20 minutes can sometimes take a lot longer as the wording is considered, the precise amount of information to divulge is tested.

Actually I am going by the implication that he doesn't post about the relevant issues in the game, not that he posts at all

Like half of chris's posts are patch notes

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Charan wrote:

I were wasting Chris' time passing this one on, compared to more pressing issues.

reading feedback is wasting his time? His developeing cancer cure or smth? Because i dont see fixes to game and apparently hes very busy.

And what are this more pressing issues? Microtransaction stuff?

Geezz.. if this mindset is common in developers land and if they still in happy closed beta playground with 'we are second D2 coming - ppl will pay and play no matter what'


There is ALMOST NO COMMUNICATION with devs compared to CB. They are just very silent about issues that concerns community and we have no real balance and fixes and changes in 2 months.
This ios POE reality and its beyond me how they change and why. And also how the game change from nice HnS to a more or less unrewarding mmo-wannabe chore. And whats is beyond me most why they dont write fukin one sentence that they want change something. Because it looks like they wont and i read all the time about 'fixes are postponed to next patch because we have more pressing issues'. And still nothiong is fixed and game is unbalanced mess.


Now you can back to your wall fo textx and mataphores. Funny that you mention Bashiok because you sound a lot like him. "arent you thankful?"

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Like half of chris's posts are patch notes

And rest is races announcements. He also post crap on reddit. There was good thread with IIQ/IIR analysis and how they are bad for the game with ideas of fixes that ppl like and comments was good.
Chris oneliner response? 'We have dimisnishing returns on MF. This is not the case' aka 'my game is perfect go play D3 noob'.
Same woth threads about crafting, about endgame maps, about everything important.. no acknowleding the issue and denials.

/facepalm

Sometimes i think that they dont even acknowledged that the game is reaeased (you may call it beta - its released) and they still thinks that D3 hate will still 'sell' PoE in current state.

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These are all the questions that need to be answered. People can deal with a game being in a shitty state due to massive changes, but they want to hear whats being planned about it and what the game devs thoughts are

basically this. i understand collossal changes in transition BC->OB. What i dont understand is silence about this changes (drop rate is much lower than in CB for example and its not in patch notes.. its just becasue crappy economy controling) and thinking that no balance is needed (2,5 months without real balance) after that drastic changes and content additions.
And they even add more content that makes even more issues instead fixing and balancing core game. just... /lol?
Also why they do this 'paradigm shift'? dunno. Game was very goos in BC. Its much worse now. And in 2,5 months is not even one percent better.