Endgame bosses are too easy, almost all abilities are dodged by moving in a random direction

"

Nomancs wrote:

"

Pizzarugi wrote:

There's one thing to consider: With the removal of the old Atlas watchstones and the new voidstones only being accessible from pinnacle bosses, you have much more limited options on raising the tier of your maps to T14+. Before 3.17, you can just grind out much easier quest conquerors. That's no longer an option, you're now required to fight pinnacle bosses to advance the Atlas level. It would be greatly unfair if the Exarch and Eater were both as difficult to beat as Uber Elder, forcing players to be content with an Atlas that is dominantly t1-t5 with a handful of t14-t16.

You have t16 unlocked without voidstones. There is no need to beat any of top bosses to play highest tier of maps. There is no content locked anymore, like old regions did lick red maps but it has been removed.

"

Pizzarugi wrote:

It's not like defeating 2/4 pinnacles completes the Atlas either.

You can complete 100% of the atlas without voidstones. They are optional.

"

Pizzarugi wrote:

I just don't think we should be making the game even worse for newbs, noobs, and players running slow builds/bad at making currency because a handful of people got 30+ challenges in less than a week.

So good players will have to quit the game because there will be no challenge for them, nothing to do, just so bad players can enjoy the game more - how is this an improvement?

No. I think ur so good as a player that u can't understand nor have time for it so I'll explain what the other is saying. First bosses encounters or "quest" encounters should be easy and casual friendly so people don't get frustrated and quit. Ubber content/rolleable invitations should be hard (harder as its a joke rn...)

So I hope a professional good player as u take some time to read and maybe if we are lucky enought understand the struggles of the common people

"

IHellBoundI wrote:

No. I think ur so good as a player that u can't understand nor have time for it so I'll explain what the other is saying. First bosses encounters or "quest" encounters should be easy and casual friendly so people don't get frustrated and quit. Ubber content/rolleable invitations should be hard (harder as its a joke rn...)

Yes, and I think you missed my opinion - new bosses are boring and way too easy. It is a bad design. They are considered as endgame threat, but instead, they're a joke.

"

IHellBoundI wrote:

So I hope a professional good player as u take some time to read and maybe if we are lucky enought understand the struggles of the common people

No, you will not be lucky enough (and thanks for passive aggression), because, I'm not a professional player and as I added it later:

"

Nomancs wrote:

I don't care about someone else fun and I don't know what is fun for them - I care about my fun, and I know new bosses are boring for me.

"

Nomancs wrote:

You have t16 unlocked without voidstones. There is no need to beat any of top bosses to play highest tier of maps. There is no content locked anymore, like old regions did lick red maps but it has been removed.

There is a subtle detail not taken into account and that is, without voidstones, T1 maps can drop from T16. I'll let you add 1 + 1 when it comes to map sustaining.

"

Nomancs wrote:

"

IHellBoundI wrote:

No. I think ur so good as a player that u can't understand nor have time for it so I'll explain what the other is saying. First bosses encounters or "quest" encounters should be easy and casual friendly so people don't get frustrated and quit. Ubber content/rolleable invitations should be hard (harder as its a joke rn...)

Yes, and I think you missed my opinion - new bosses are boring and way too easy. It is a bad design. They are considered as endgame threat, but instead, they're a joke.

"

IHellBoundI wrote:

So I hope a professional good player as u take some time to read and maybe if we are lucky enought understand the struggles of the common people

No, you will not be lucky enough (and thanks for passive aggression), because, I'm not a professional player and as I added it later:

"

Nomancs wrote:

I don't care about someone else fun and I don't know what is fun for them - I care about my fun, and I know new bosses are boring for me.

I do agree new bosses are a joke. Dare to say much easier than shaper guardians.

I didn't agreed and my quote was more direct to ur voidstone opinion and bad/good players. This progression (voidstones) can't be attached to pinacle bosses cause the natural progression of a game is farm up to beat said bosses. Not beat the bosses so u can farm the maps u want. Most people angry rn (including my friend as I had to carry maven and ubber for her) is that they picked a old progression (sextants/favorite maps t14-16) and gated behind bosses.

when a player picks a build that trivializes all content and then complains 'no challenge'..

it is true that these bosses are bit easier than some other options (but when rolled - not by much). but when someone plays a build that puts his character in no actual danger - there is no room to complain about lack of challenge

go and play something other than 'the damage just happens while i run in circles' - and maybe youll see why not everyone sees it as a problem.

the option to play Heavy Strike (or any close ranged build that has to stand still to deal damage) is still open. give it a shot.


Eater of Worlds can be killed without ever seeing him. that fight is terribly designed. but if you have to facehug him - it gets real dangerous real fast (unless one cannot simply phase him in < 5sec)

"

Nomancs wrote:

You have t16 unlocked without voidstones. There is no need to beat any of top bosses to play highest tier of maps. There is no content locked anymore, like old regions did lick red maps but it has been removed.

"

Nomancs wrote:

You can complete 100% of the atlas without voidstones. They are optional.

You're missing the point.

Having 5 T14, 5 T15, and 4 T16 maps (I counted) isn't very much of an improvement to the old system, especially if you're someone who wants to run specific maps which may not even be T11+. For example, I want to favorite both City Square and Toxic Sewers maps because they're good for Expedition and Blight respectively. Without Exarch and Eater voidstones, they're T6 and T3. They bump up to T13 and T10 with both voidstones slotted in. If I want to enjoy both maps being red, I'll now have to fight Uber Elder and/or Maven.

Before 3.17, you didn't have to fight pinnacle bosses in order to turn all of your maps into T14+. Conquerors aren't pinnacle, even when they're no longer quest versions, and you can still complete them as normal maps if you're just grinding for the watchstones. In fact, pinnacle bosses before 3.17 were optional encounters you'd want to run for Uncharted Realms passives or farming for currency. Hell even Sirus wasn't a forced encounter, you can just open his portals then immediately fire up your next map with no consequence. That's simply not the case anymore, and as such, some pinnacles should be easier than the others to prevent players from hitting a brick wall and getting bored with the tiny amount of T14+ maps they have access to.

For players who don't or can't fight pinnacle bosses, this Atlas change is a colossal nerf. If you buff Eater and Exarch, you're just adding salt to a wound.

"

Nomancs wrote:

So good players will have to quit the game because there will be no challenge for them, nothing to do, just so bad players can enjoy the game more - how is this an improvement?

Then stop running builds that trivialize the game and allow you to bulldoze challenges? You and I are in the same guild that focus entirely on grinding challenges, you could also just not participate in that in order to slow down.

I'd rather GGG nerf whatever builds you power challengers are running than make the game harder for everyone else not running them or participating in guilds that make challenges easier. :P

"

Nomancs wrote:

I don't care about someone else fun and I don't know what is fun for them - I care about my fun, and I know new bosses are boring for me.

Fair enough, but the same can be said by the other party. I, and other people who've responded here, don't care about your fun or the fun being had by 30+ challenges-in-one-week players. We care about our own fun, and buffing new bosses to be as painful as Sirus or Uber Elder would suck for us.

"

Reinhart wrote:

There is a subtle detail not taken into account and that is, without voidstones, T1 maps can drop from T16. I'll let you add 1 + 1 when it comes to map sustaining.

What would be the point of having T1 on your atlas and not beeing able to drop it? I already added 1+1 days ago and can tell you there is no map sustain problem with atlas passives you get.

"

IHellBoundI wrote:

Not beat the bosses so u can farm the maps u want. Most people angry rn (including my friend as I had to carry maven and ubber for her) is that they picked a old progression (sextants/favorite maps t14-16) and gated behind bosses.

They are always angry people, no matter what. So... why can't she work on killing those bosses herself? I want to be level 100 on day one of the league, but you know - nothing is happening by itself. Should I ask GGG to make it happen for me? Both things are perfectly OPTIONAL.

"

sidtherat wrote:

the option to play Heavy Strike (or any close ranged build that has to stand still to deal damage) is still open. give it a shot.

The option is to play naked with auto attack, right? You can also ask me to use blindfold, or one hand, or both, or no hand no legs... Tell me it is a good way to design a challenge in game...

"

sidtherat wrote:

Eater of Worlds can be killed without ever seeing him. that fight is terribly designed. but if you have to facehug him - it gets real dangerous real fast (unless one cannot simply phase him in < 5sec)

YES - because it is a bad design, he is doing almost nothing to ranged/minion builds. I don't know how big is his aoe dmg for melee, but ranged don't need to be bothered 99% of the time by boss abilities.

Eater of World's AOE 'bomb' instakills most regular characters - with +AOE mod and haste it is pretty f.. dangerous.



problem is both boss design AND idiotic discrepancy between ranged/non-ranged and instant/proxy build types that GGG (for unknown reasons) fosters.

there is a reason why youve picked ranged/proxy build - because it trivializes the game. complaining about 'no challenge' after purposely picking no challenge build kinda lacks merit

"

sidtherat wrote:

there is a reason why youve picked ranged/proxy build - because it trivializes the game. complaining about 'no challenge' after purposely picking no challenge build kinda lacks merit

Are you saying that after picking minions or range build I CAN'T ask GGG to balance the boss to be more challenging for my build? Am I asking too much for GGG to add challenge for ranged and minions builds?!

"

Having 5 T14, 5 T15, and 4 T16 maps (I counted) isn't very much of an improvement to the old system, especially if you're someone who wants to run specific maps which may not even be T11+. For example, I want to favorite both City Square and Toxic Sewers maps because they're good for Expedition and Blight respectively. Without Exarch and Eater voidstones, they're T6 and T3. They bump up to T13 and T10 with both voidstones slotted in. If I want to enjoy both maps being red, I'll now have to fight Uber Elder and/or Maven.

Before 3.17, you didn't have to fight pinnacle bosses in order to turn all of your maps into T14+. Conquerors aren't pinnacle, even when they're no longer quest versions, and you can still complete them as normal maps if you're just grinding for the watchstones. In fact, pinnacle bosses before 3.17 were optional encounters you'd want to run for Uncharted Realms passives or farming for currency. Hell even Sirus wasn't a forced encounter, you can just open his portals then immediately fire up your next map with no consequence. That's simply not the case anymore, and as such, some pinnacles should be easier than the others to prevent players from hitting a brick wall and getting bored with the tiny amount of T14+ maps they have access to.

For players who don't or can't fight pinnacle bosses, this Atlas change is a colossal nerf. If you buff Eater and Exarch, you're just adding salt to a wound.

1. I have 2/4 voidstones and constantly run tier 16 maps without even clearing them fully. If you can't sustain them that means you don't put enough points in the map nodes on the passive tree. You need to dedicate some points there instead of being a smartass and only going for the most profitable nodes for you.

2. Strand, Dunes, Peninsula, Ashen Woods - plenty of good maps to run even if you don't have them all at 16.

So your complaints are not really legit. You can't run this specific map at tier 16? Honestly, who cares. You adapt or you quit