Xp loss isnt needed in 2022
" +1, exactly. Especially for SSF, that people play to be creative in making their own builds with whatever they can find rather than copying one. If it takes too long to find what you need, it gets very boring. You can't face what you need to to get what you need, because you don't have what you need. So you have to repeat boring content endlessly, and finding a specific content can takes a literal whole year for a casual SSF. It's just not worth it. When people see they're stuck in that, they just leave, including me. "Reaching level 100 too fast", the usual reason given, makes no sense as one can just start another character. |
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^but these reasons are precisely why the exp penalty is the BEST penalty. It doesn't actually stop your progress in any way. You don't regress levels and you don't lose gear / currency. And it DOES give you a check on your build.
It is performing precisely the task you said: allowing you to experiment harder content you aren't ready for while not totally obliterating you for doing it! |
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" Precisely. To those defending xp loss: take a step back and ask yourselves why are they removing 6-linking in POE 2? I'm sure a bunch of POE veterans would too be arguing against that decision with foam at their mouth. In simple terms, the answer is because the above aspect of progression on average is much more demotivating than it is motivating, which hurts the game on many fronts. And I'm glad the developer finally realized that, even though it took quite a while for the penny to drop. Same applies to xp loss. It does more damage than good (if any). GGG need to seriously consider dropping that mechanic in POE 2. |
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" It's by design the WORST penalty, and I'm going to help you understand why. Just answer these 2 questions to yourself: 1. What exactly is XP loss meant to penalize? What is that bad behavior? 2. Why are we stopping the penalty as soon as the player reaches 100? In other words, why something that was seen as a bad behavior is suddenly not longer a problem? Any good MBA would tell you that penalties and rewards only work when they are applied consistently, otherwise they just make people mad, which leads to negatives consequences of all sorts. |
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^I could be missing something, but they are NOT getting rid of 6L for PoE2, they are simply moving it....
Rather than getting a 6L on the gear itself, you need to roll a 6L on the gem slot. There is still variability to EACH gemslot with how many supports it allows. There are screenshots proving this with some giving only 1 support, some giving 4 etc. 1) EXP loss penalizes death, or progress. Getting to Level 100 is the progress that the exp penalty is specifically designed for. Functioning perfectly. Gets more and more painful the closer you get to the goal, effectively making it "harder and harder" to reach. 2) The penalty stops because its no longer applicable. You have overcome the hurdle and were granted your achievement (full skillpoints + lvl 100). It IS applied consistently, players who are lvl 100 have simply reached the goal already, there's no reason to regress them away from that goal at that point. It is a DAMN GOOD THING that the death penalty is not a ding on the entire character development (loss of levels, loss of gear, etc). That means you can continue to play and just choose slightly easier content if you die too often and before long you are back to the same exp where you were. Much harder to do that if the punishments were item-related or could completely ruin your build with losing skill points. This was an argument made earlier in the thread. Getting to level 100 is an ACHIEVEMENT designed by GGG. The exp penalty is the reason that huge swaths of players don't reach that achievement. Some are exceedingly dedicated and run rotas or easier content to hit 100 because that is the most effective way to reach it. Similarly, players can run yellow maps juiced for their entire league and make plenty of currency to upgrade their characters until they can handle juiced red maps. If the penalty were anything OTHER than exp, this would not be possible. Last edited by jsuslak313#7615 on Feb 12, 2022, 6:02:56 PM
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" So were you trying to make a case for "people should level down if they die at 0%?" Because that's all you've done here and, honestly? I kind of agree with you. But it seems to me that this might not be the point you were trying to make. Anyway. The flaw in your reasoning is that you're describing the experience loss as a punishment, which it isn't. A more accurate way to look at it is that gaining levels is a reward for staying alive. That's literally why RPGs call it "experience:" your character is getting stronger by fighting stuff and not being dead. So losing experience is only a punishment in that you don't get a reward, but... if you haven't earned the reward, you shouldn't get the reward? That's kind of how stuff works. Once you've reached level 100, there are no more rewards to claim because you have them all. So there's no inconsistency in the system, provided you look at it through a non-distorted lens. It's not like GGG is wagging their finger and saying "no level ups for naughty boys!" just because you got blasted off the planet by a detonate-dead strongbox. And yes, this system does make the game objectively better. If there's nothing but time between level 1 and level 100, it means none of those levels have any meaning or value. They stop being rewards the instant they're freely given, and at that point GGG honestly should just start everyone at level 100. People asking for the XP penalty to be taken away are like kids who think they want is ice cream for every meal. It's not what you want, even if you can't understand why. You'd enjoy it for the first few weeks I'm sure, but after that? It's not special anymore, it's routine, and that thing you used to take such pleasure in - such as the moment you gain that level after days or weeks spent working on it - has been ruined forever. |
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^more articulate way of describing my exact thoughts too.
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" You've described the mechanics of it, which was accurate - I was not questioning that part. My questions were more about the rationale and intent behind the existing implementation as well as how that should be perceived by the players. Therefore let's dig a little deeper. On your "EXP loss penalizes death": well what is that exactly about? Just the fact of the death event itself? For that type of scenario there is an HC mode which terminates the league for your char as a punishment. And in those leagues that's Ok as that's the name of the game from the very start. Now, in non-HC the death penalty has to be about a specific behaviour that you would want to address, and a simple "don't die" would be a rather dumb kind of feedback to the player from a game design standpoint. Basically, what is the message the game is delivering to the player by punishing their progression, if it's supposed to be anything more than just to annoy them? (One caviat though: the message has to be fair, otherwise who would want to continue engaging with a product which randomly takes away progression for no good reason) The problem with the xp loss on death is that the only message is sends boils down to simply "sorry, pal, but we want to delay you getting those remaining skill points". And no, the penalty is not about players going "too glass canon", "overly juicing the content" and other fluff like that, as - like I stated in the prior posts here - the game is completely fine with all of that behavior as soon as you hit 100. There is another aspect of xp loss in this game which only reenforces the above notion: the xp penalty is way too disproportionate at higher levels. It makes no sense that the xp lost exceeds the amount of xp earned in the area of player's death. (No other rewards work that way in the game, if you think about it) To conclude: it is only natural that threads about removal of xp penalty keep popping up in the forums. There's no good reason for the penalty to stay in the game in its current form. " Let's be honest here: there's no achievement in cheesing breaches and beachheads. It doesn't make you any more skilled / smarter than anyone else. I have lvl 100 chars, I've done breaches and beachheads for leveling and hated every second of it. And I haven't met anyone who'd be genuinely enjoying that tedium. Without the xp penalty people could progress in the content of their choice, which would be better for everyone. Last edited by MorsExTenebris#3427 on Feb 13, 2022, 1:23:14 AM
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" Yes and no. I was trying to make a case for "people should neither level down nor incur an xp loss on death at any level consistently". " Experience loss is in fact a punishment by design, I won't be wasting my time arguing about that. To your other point: the reward is skill points (= progress) that you're getting - and I agree that it should be earned by engaging with the game. However, what I'm suggesting is that once earned it should not be taken away (at any level, incl. 100). " But that exactly what POE does right now to anyone who's a few levels shy of 100. I can't stop you from imagining it differently though. " No, nobody's asking for a free meal here or anything on a silver plate. On the contrary, those are the people who simply value their time, and therefore care what they spend it on, which you should do as well. " Trust me - I do know what I want - you don't need to worry about that part. As for the enjoyment of leveling - above all else the process grants you skill points, and those are always valuable and aren't some abstract achievements for bragging rights. So nothing would ruin the level-up moment if the xp loss went away from the game. Last edited by MorsExTenebris#3427 on Feb 13, 2022, 1:26:35 AM
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" So nobody is asking for a free ride to 100, but they don't have time to play the game properly and want the 100? So they want to turn PoE into a walking simulator like Diablo 3? You don't have time to get something by yourself, so you demand it to be delivered for free to you? What kind of argument is that? If you value your time, maybe try to use it efficiently. Do you want to turn level 100 into "participation trophy"? Biggest compliments for my crafted items - "bs, they must have been RMT'ed"
I'm disabled, I have rare case of semperduravera, so I can write things that may look rude, but it is because of disability - I'm forced to tell truth using words you may not like. |
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