Xp loss isnt needed in 2022

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Johny_Snow wrote:

Except by this point I'd probably be level 98 and these 4 points would be undeserved.

levels and skill points are not really about who deserves it but about how much time and effort you put into it.

sure more people would probably hit level 100 if you removed the penalty but you could always just increase the amount of exp per level to simulate some 30-50 deaths in maps and not have the exp loss and the end result is the same with no change in player behavior because of it.

the point of a penalty is to provoke thought and learning and the exp loss does not do this

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MorsExTenebris wrote:

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Sarno wrote:

...
Others prefer a game where decisions are meaningful & have consequences.
...

...
See, long term your beloved xp penalty achieves exactly NOTHING, except for turning away some folks who otherwise might have stuck around longer.

true, but who wants those bot armies in your endgame, nonstop farming red maps?

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Squishysquish wrote:

i suppose what different people consider an achievement does indeed differ from person to person but that isn't the point of my post? id hate to have the other stuff i said overlooked because of a minor subjective detail

I mean, whether we consider something an achievement is a different bowl of soup, for instance the playerbase mostly agrees that the feared or juiced t16s are an achievement. However, GGG holds the responsibility to finetune the accesibility only for the stuff they specifically designed to be an achievement, and hitting level 100 was designed to be one.

For instance, when gearbox added Krieg to borderlands 2, they removed the achievement of jumping on top of the pig in front of the happy pig motel because Krieg was too heavy to do it. Similarly, GGG did some changes to all ears achievement when they changed the campaign.

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I mean, whether we consider something an achievement is a different bowl of soup, for instance the playerbase mostly agrees that the feared or juiced t16s are an achievement. However, GGG holds the responsibility to finetune the accesibility only for the stuff they specifically designed to be an achievement, and hitting level 100 was designed to be one.

For instance, when gearbox added Krieg to borderlands 2, they removed the achievement of jumping on top of the pig in front of the happy pig motel because Krieg was too heavy to do it. Similarly, GGG did some changes to all ears achievement when they changed the campaign.

i did not mean steam achievement or console trophy, i meant the actual definition of the word achievement which is "a thing done successfully, typically by effort, courage, or skill." but again not the point of my first post.

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Squishysquish wrote:

i did not mean steam achievement or console trophy, i meant the actual definition of the word achievement which is "a thing done successfully, typically by effort, courage, or skill." but again not the point of my first post.

Well, that's what I'm trying to say here. GGG designed level 100 to be an achievement that's tricky because 'you have to play a certain amount of time without dying'. Over the years, that amount of time reduced because the game changed, but the nature of the challenge didn't change. If it became just 'you have to play a certain amount of time', then it becomes a different kind of challenge even though the end result is the same.

That's one thing, and the other is that completing the challenge comes with a certain amount of power. Those 3-4% of power never made or broke anyone's character in the entire history of PoE, so they have no reason to consider decoupling it from the challenge.

Literally don't care. Tired of hearing this. Every single league. Without fail. Someone has to make one of these threads. Just stop already.

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raics wrote:

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Squishysquish wrote:

level 100 isn't some achievement to brag about or some grand power that only few should be able to obtain. its roughly 3-4% more power than most people see from their passive tree. Its not something that is needed.

What is or isn't an achievement depends on what is designed to be. If the devs clearly said that something is intended to be an achievement, I'd say there's no room to discuss it further.

I agree that those 3-4% more power isn't something that is needed, though :)
If we, dunno, got two extra ascendancy points for hitting level 100, there might be room for discussing 'should that be an achievement or not'. As things currently are, I couldn't make that argument, not in good faith at least, I'd have no ground to stand on.

but what about any of the other things i talked about in my first post, do you have any thoughts on those things?

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Squishysquish wrote:

but what about any of the other things i talked about in my first post, do you have any thoughts on those things?

Honestly, you're taking the issue where it has no business going. It's just a challenge and it shouldn't be a factor when you design the game, as long as the feasibility of the challenge for the current state of the game is roughly in the ballpark where you want it to be, there's no real problem.

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raics wrote:

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Squishysquish wrote:

but what about any of the other things i talked about in my first post, do you have any thoughts on those things?

Honestly, you're taking the issue where it has no business going. It's just a challenge and it shouldn't be a factor when you design the game, as long as the feasibility of the challenge for the current state of the game is roughly in the ballpark where you want it to be, there's no real problem.

you have missed my entire point, completely and totally. the parts you have quoted to me and the parts you have focused on are the farthest removed portions of my post from the point i was actually making and wanted to discuss. i myself am not taking the discussion of challenges and level 100 obtaining anywhere as that has very little to do with my original post. you are having a different conversation than me completely.
im not even sure you even read past my first paragraph.

good day sir

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Squishysquish wrote:

you have missed my entire point, completely and totally. the parts you have quoted to me and the parts you have focused on are the farthest removed portions of my post from the point i was actually making and wanted to discuss. i myself am not taking the discussion of challenges and level 100 obtaining anywhere as that has very little to do with my original post. you are having a different conversation than me completely.
im not even sure you even read past my first paragraph.

good day sir

Well, that was the only paragraph with any kind of relevant point.

But have a good one in any case, it's friday after all and the air smells of spring.