POE is ACTUALLY dying not the drama queen kind, but the actual kind... From Developer Hubris

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alhazred70 wrote:

Forget the "vanity numbers" Even the POE Streamers are tanking hard. The POE category looks as dead right now as it usually does in Month 3 of most leagues. About to get a lot worse as soon as Quin moves back to variety. Ziz is opening LE boxes on stream, and ZiggyD has moved on to variety faster than I think he's ever done before.

This game now feels like Taffy thats been pulled too far apart...

I have to echo the common sentiment that the following problems are literally and not figuratively or metaphorically KILLING POE:

1. it feels like shit to play anything thats not "Meta" (until you have enough gear and investment to overcome the CLIFF they've created with the Gem nerfs in 3.15, the flask nerfs which still screw early gameplay and the stealth nerfs (passive tree higher opportunity costs and Fortify butchering) of 3.16), Ailments especially before you have enough currency to roll new tiered flasks (which is huge nerf this league) make anything without immunity feel like trash. So only play things with easy immunity or RMT some flask rolling currency or "farm" for flask rolling currency in Blood Aquaducts LOL.

2. the game got slowed down but is still tuned to prolong or "edge" CuteDog... you can't spend 3 years making it harder and harder for CuteDog to get the good stuff and then ask everyone to slow down without also adjusting 3 years of progressively worse loot which is almost never worth picking up 9,999 items out of 10k are filtered and then another 99% of the non filtered trash is VENDORED BECAUSE IT WAS BAD.

On average what are we actually using? One item out of 100,000 dropped? 1 Item out of 200,000? I would love to see the metric for how many items per item drop actually get equipped to a character... its got to be something embarrassingly absurd.

3. They keep saying "we want to slow down play and have more detailed combat" out of one side of their face and "but speed up if you want good rewards" out the other. Sorry Chris but clear speed doesn't actually have to be the only win condition you ever design into the game...

But it literally is the only win condition you guys ever design into the game...

4. They keep downplaying nerfs and highlighting buffs but literally every buff they do has a "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" nerf happening behind the scenes. It feels like shit to play POE even when I'm motivated and have time I find myself giving up after a few hours "this feels like shit to play now, I want to play but I can't find anything that feels good any more. I'm attacking in slow motion and juddering around the screen while shit shotguns me through 5 defensive layers" echoing in my head.


So basically Developer hubris has caused POE to "jump the shark" and Developer hubris will keep them from being able to see or acknowledge that fact and the game will continue to fall off faster and steeper after every update until such a time as they miraculously see what they've done wrong, and admit to themselves that they screwed up and correct their mistakes or Tencent decides on new management for their failing property.

Ofc Tencent stepping in wouldn't actually make the game better it would probably just result in an even bigger disaster.

Me I'm going back to D2R (which despite worse QoL and LESS STUFF TO DO in every way, still feels like a better core gameplay loop of killing stuff and getting loot. As well as Last Epoch (which likewise despite being kinda scuffed in early access already feels better to actually PLAY (kill stuff and get loot) So I'm giving the LE guys my best feedback which is basically:

"hey please learn from GGG's mistakes and never cater to the zoomers to begin with so you don't have to reverse course and pull your game in two different directions"

Both of these games have much slower gameplay but yet: you don't attack in slow motion (since the "melee revamp" made melee worse and you aren't moving in quicksand and they actually FEEL GOOD when fighting... this is another thing POE suffers from: slow base speed, attack and cast until you have enough investment... D2 feels good to kill stuff in blood Moor ffs.

GGG literally drawing and quartering Path of Exile. making it slower while leaving it tuned for CuteDog... With predictable and entirely unsurprising losses in players.

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jdp29 wrote:

D2R is good because you pick up items off the ground and actually use them, instead of having to do 3 different crafts to make the item usable.
D2R is good because you spend time fighting monsters (the Action) part of ARPG, instead of playing a trade simulator if you aren't on SSF.

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Onecardtoomany wrote:

We do not of course know, how much income was generated by some excellent 3.16 marketing and hype, however, whether or not POE is dying, it is pretty clear that it is materially less healthy than it was 18 months ago. Last year GGG paid a $100mn dividend and I am pretty sure that they won't be paying anywhere near that this year. Whatever the reason for this is, it is pretty clear that right now it is not in a good place.

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TBorgezHU3 wrote:

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jdp29 wrote:

D2R is good because you pick up items off the ground and actually use them, instead of having to do 3 different crafts to make the item usable.
D2R is good because you spend time fighting monsters (the Action) part of ARPG, instead of playing a trade simulator if you aren't on SSF.

Or having to buy from a totally useless and poorly designed market.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

why is that pretty clear?

this league had higher player count peak than the leagues 18 months ago, its got a higher player peak than any league from before this year. 3 of the 4 leagues this year have the 3 highest player peaks ever in the games history, all 3 of them are higher than anything last year or in any previous year of the games existence.

what about that makes it pretty clear that its not in a good place and is worse off materially than it was 18 months ago?

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DarthSki44 wrote:

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

why is that pretty clear?

this league had higher player count peak than the leagues 18 months ago, its got a higher player peak than any league from before this year. 3 of the 4 leagues this year have the 3 highest player peaks ever in the games history, all 3 of them are higher than anything last year or in any previous year of the games existence.

what about that makes it pretty clear that its not in a good place and is worse off materially than it was 18 months ago?

No reason to be so disingenuous. Chris's himself indicated a 30+% revenue dip for 3.15, and was certainly one of the main reasons for his media blitz.

Also if you want to look at retention numbers, which is most likely tied to their monetization algorithms (the more you play, the more likely you will spend $$$), they are trending in a concerning direction.

https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/qyn6tv/scourge_1_month_statistics/

Fiscal 2021 is going to be much worse than 2020 for GGG, how much we won't really know until around March 2022.