POE is ACTUALLY dying not the drama queen kind, but the actual kind... From Developer Hubris

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rekikyo wrote:

Technically up to 4-5 mods in POE crafting can not be a slot machine, more or less.
If you craft using Alteration Orbs, to land 2 good mods, and then Awakener them together, you can reasonably then use Aisling to craft a pretty reliable third option that's only psuedo random, and then bench craft a 4th. Certain items you can then enchant for the 5th predictable mod.

Crafting isn't entirely random anymore, since they made Veiled mods useful.

Your understanding of random is difficult. 4-5 mods is exactly a slot machine outcome and it got worse with added mods and tiers over the years.

Veiled mods don't make it better since its still rng, have you not seen people spending 30 or more exalts in pre/suf cant be changed and aisling to hit something with 50/50 odds?

People made 5/6 t1 items years ago and they do now. The difference is the game demands them now on influenced items to beat endgame.

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pifpep wrote:

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rekikyo wrote:

Technically up to 4-5 mods in POE crafting can not be a slot machine, more or less.
If you craft using Alteration Orbs, to land 2 good mods, and then Awakener them together, you can reasonably then use Aisling to craft a pretty reliable third option that's only psuedo random, and then bench craft a 4th. Certain items you can then enchant for the 5th predictable mod.

Crafting isn't entirely random anymore, since they made Veiled mods useful.

Your understanding of random is difficult. 4-5 mods is exactly a slot machine outcome and it got worse with added mods and tiers over the years.

Veiled mods don't make it better since its still rng, have you not seen people spending 30 or more exalts in pre/suf cant be changed and aisling to hit something with 50/50 odds?

People made 5/6 t1 items years ago and they do now. The difference is the game demands them now on influenced items to beat endgame.

You have to be less picky with what you craft. People trying to Prevent etc generally only do so because they dont want to risk their mod.

But... what actually costs more.... starting from square 1? or Preventing the change with EX Suffix/Pre protecting?

Furthermore, there ARE other paths to craft.... You could just craft until you have 4-5 mods T1 which is fairly easy with just Chaos, and then Aisling, and then use harvest to roll suffix/prefix after that, until 5 mods are perfect and line up a guaranteed Conqueror mod.

I have a ring that I rolled a bunch of shit mods on + 3 T1 Suffixes (Level 22 HoT/40% reduced Curse effect/Resist)
Aisling replaced the resist with +1 Min Frenzy/3% Frenzy on kill.

Now all that ring's shit mods are prefixes. All I have to do is get 1 mod, maybe 2, as Prefix rolls, and then craft on % Damage.

If I get 1 Prefix (+3 Gem, or Life, or Lightning % Damage) I can just craft on Damage, and then add an Aspect of Cat.

Almost every step in that ring craft is deterministic.

And what's better: many rings exist on trade that already have 2-3 steps out of the way.

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You're also missing some serious changes about RNG crafting that gets overlooked.

1) GGG moved wep DoT Modifiers to Suffixes. In other words, getting a +2 - +5 weapon is now almost completely deterministic. A good 4 fossil craft actually blocks everything but attack/spell and gem level mods now. That's three categories left as Pre per craft now, and 3 possible prefix outcomes. There's no failure, unless your craft only gives you 1-2 mods.

2) GGG has limited Fossil eraft exclusive affixes by about half 3 leagues ago, making those outcomes much more common.

3) This league, GGG reduced the number of Influence mods on Conquerors so much that the outcomes are far more deterministic when rolling Influence mods. Each Conqueror has only 5 prefixes, which in some cases gets reduced to 1-2 outcomes depending on how you already crafted or what you're blocking.

4) GGG drastically improved the rate of good drops from Conquerors with desirable mods after Harvest. You can actually get a 3-4 EX Craft drop on the floor now without doing anything on your own. 2 days ago I got a near perfect Chaos DoT Glove with 218 ES. Sold for 4 Ex. Go Al Hezmin!

Literally the only 2-3 crafting paths that are more RNG than deterministic:
-Atzoatl/Delve native crafting
-Post Awakener's dual influence crafting with Maven.

BTW: Scourge added 1 broken crafting option that literally makes every rare craft a success if used enough times:

Tainted Divine Teardrop.
Randomly raises/drops the tier of all explicits on a corrupted item.

One of the biggest reason we throw crafts away is tier gapping. You often get the right mods/wrong tiers. So, craft/buy several with the right mods/wrong tiers (common on trade), corrupt them X2 in Vaal Temple, and then Scourge them. 1-2 might reward you, and then you can just taint them until all mods are T1. This is probably more broken than Harvest was!

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rekikyo wrote:

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Bloody hell, if that was a sales pitch for crafting in the game I'd wince a little, laugh and move on. The hoops that have to be jumped through in PoE just to get gear is nuts. And you're only talking about the 'easy' way.

Crafting for build enabling/strong items should not be hidden recipes and RNG on RNG, the player should have a clear view of the path to the item and investment required, which they then grind towards (i.e. collect x mats, y of item base type blah, z modifier currency, etc). You can make it really expensive, but at least it's clear.

That fact that the only people here explaining how 'easy' it is to get top gear and work the system are experienced longer term players says a lot. I shouldn't need 100's-1000's of hours of gametime and using 3rd party sites just to be able to understand what the goals are in the first place, let alone get to them efficiently (which yes experience will improve).

well if your goals are to get the very best possible gear in the game that will faceroll the highest tiers of content then yes, it should take you a very long time, you should have to be a fairly expert veteran of the game because thats the people those items and that content were created to cater for, so that they had something to do.


if you are not that guy then dont worry, youve got a ton of other stuff in front of you to do before you get there. thates the content thats been designed for you.



this is a game designed to be possible to play for 1000s of hours, its not a game thats been designed to have nothing left to learn or aim for after a 50 hour playthrough.

its funny Diablo 3 start doing thinks right now. giving players more power in season but take it away from core. GGG take a way more player power every league.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

this is a game designed to be possible to play for 1000s of hours, its not a game thats been designed to have nothing left to learn or aim for after a 50 hour playthrough.

You can play thousands of hours but not through the strength of the contents but through RNG factor.

Once you remove the RNG factor and the various timegating mechanics either through extremely low drop rate or stat check, the main game isn't much.

That's why people still stop playing league after a month no matter what GGG had done. Why? Because their main goal was to down Sirus8, kill Maven, try a bit with the league mechanic and then quit. Only the top 1% managed to min-max after a month, and then they either continue streaming or if they don't make money from the game they will stop and wait for next league too.

Yes. It's still the best ARPG. Because there is no serious competition from big companies, GGG can do whatever they want and "it's still the best ARPG".

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Junkkis wrote:

its funny Diablo 3 start doing thinks right now. giving players more power in season but take it away from core. GGG take a way more player power every league.

diablo 3 doesnt have a fixed difficulty system, so the content is almost always relative to the player. Grs are capped at 150, and if they were to let people reach that cap too easily they would have to increase it otherwise the game would fall apart. until that point power in d3 is meaningless, because you double your damage, double your defences, and then you turn the rift dial up by a couple of notches and you are playing exactly the same game as before.



in 2013 the average build had about 2k dps in endgame, now thats probably around 600k dps. i dont think its really accurate to say ggg have taken away power with every league, the vast majority of leagues have added insane amounts of power.

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Networm13 wrote:

You can play thousands of hours but not through the strength of the contents but through RNG factor.

not really, its the content. people overcome the rng and yes they stop playing the league once its got old for them. but then they come back again the next league to play the same content over again, because of thr strength of that content.


you say the game isnt much, you care to name a game with more?

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

not really, its the content. people overcome the rng and yes they stop playing the league once its got old for them. but then they come back again the next league to play the same content over again, because of thr strength of that content.


you say the game isnt much, you care to name a game with more?

I think you misunderstood something. People come back for the new league mechanics. If they feel it's boring they leave. Look at 3.15 and 3.16.

If the love the base game so much they can just play in standard, not the new league.

If they love the base game, they wouldn't have asked for skipping campaign and go straight through map every new league.

Do you want me to compare PoE with games of other genres? I admitted that despite all that PoE is still the best ARPG due to the lack of serious competitors in the market.

"Tainted Divine Teardrop"

Which I haven't yet seen after 300 hours this Season.