PoE could have been best game in genre...

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MECHanokl wrote:

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DarkJen wrote:

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darciaz wrote:

You know that’s a subjective opinion, right?

PoE have few CDTs, portal losses, server issues, instance crashes, each of them few. Not for a month of play. But for EVERY SINGLE SESSION.

Wonder how it still a thing.
And how devs still can tolerate this level of product quality.

You also forgot awful performance with frequent fps drops and bad loading times even on SSD.

And the question is not to the developers but to the consumers. Developers clearly don't care one bit, it has been like this for many years. The game population has grown, money stream increased, Tencent money got injected, but this jank remained.

I could never understand why some many people are just... ok with this stuff. I tolerated this for a long time due to wearing the "it's a small indie dev studio!" rose tinted glasses, but surely at this point in time wast majority of people realized that this is not about them not having resources.

Oh, yeah, you're right!
I forgot it, and its a big one.

Good Lord it was easy for me to pass this traumatizing experience by having fun somewhere else, so I actually forgot this and may some more, all for good, all for good! :)

Whats the point of these kind of threads? There is no constructive argument.
Obviously there is the ton of people enjoying the game just as it is. And if you dont like it, just dont play it, or make a good argument for what could be better.

These threads are dead before you start them.

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Downfall89 wrote:

Whats the point of these kind of threads? There is no constructive argument.
Obviously there is the ton of people enjoying the game just as it is. And if you dont like it, just dont play it, or make a good argument for what could be better.

These threads are dead before you start them.

Hmm...and if we exclude the fact that between the QQ threads there are guys who offer real solutions to some problems but got swarmed by white knights to the point where new replies are not about rating the idea...then everyone who does not like the current state of beloved game have 3 options: A) play white maps, trying to enjoy the game as a game and pray for better times B) just quit forever C) offer professional solution to how GGG should run their own game and how GGG can make a $100M profit and anyway buy all recent supporter packs and/or create a third-party-program for free so the game feels more finished and enjoyable.
Yeah...NOFANX.
BTW i bet there would be twice more players playing the game often if:
1) GGG put just 10% more effort into the game - even MTXs are copy-paste of old stuff nowadays /but with prices that scare newbies/ - and they are not a small company anymore, they proved they can do cool stuff, but only when they want to do so
2) GGG did aim at 20ish weeks cycle instead of 13 weeks - not just because many casual/slow-tempo-players would have the time to enjoy the leagues more or try more skills before their nerfs, But also would Not have the Cybertrash'77 case where GGG showed us FU sign for holidays while in reality many players have the same dilemma which game to focus on: PoE betatest start of league or a new game they have waited to come out to try, w/e genre and name, its same problem that GGG didnt respect and only kind of solution to such cases was the "i had enough for this league" or even "league is over soon, doesnt worth playing when can enjoy X game"
3) GGG balance game around the majority of players and put extra hard mods for uber uber endgame /like 100% deli red maps, last waves of Simulacrums, uber Breachstones and 5ways we have now/ where their beloved 10-20k top supporters play >> like instead of: add OP Harvest > delete Harvest > add ok Harvest but due pro players abuse > nerf more Harvest > anyway nerf again Harvest - no matter the ones who abuse those are 2% of playerbase and for example couldve put gg crafts as option to whoever fight Oshabi for example where balancing the things would focussed on the problem itself and yet not lose tons of players who got spoiled via Harvest or get punished for something they did not abuse at all in reality.

The case, PoE is created for the hardcore players that wants a complex game to sink lots of time in. Its not balanced that good for more softcore players that dont necessary have that much time. If you were to make it more enjoyable for the softcore players, the hardcore player would take the hits and probably lose interest. I have several years of poe and a lot of friends from the game, everyone is on the same wave length and would not balance that part any more in the favor of the more softcore players. The playerbase core would disolve.

I feel that harvest is a completly good state, i have made tons of great items and buffing it would be absurd. Often its more on how to use it with wich bases.

I also feel that the league cycle is perfect as it is. After 3 months you should have been through the new league mechanics tons of tons of time, and the mechanic no longer feels that interesting. Even though i do understand your concern about people leaving because the league is ending, i also think a lot of this is due to needing something new.

I can also to some degree on the MTX, but i dont see MTX as a big part of the game. There are flaws in the game, and there always will be. Some leagues will be better and some worse. Contructive critic is good, if done exatcly like that, constructive.

The one fact is that the core player base is extremly tide to this game, and are always returning more or less. Call it white knights, call it worship, but the core love this game and its core gameplay.

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canilaz_ wrote:

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Downfall89 wrote:

Whats the point of these kind of threads? There is no constructive argument.
Obviously there is the ton of people enjoying the game just as it is. And if you dont like it, just dont play it, or make a good argument for what could be better.

These threads are dead before you start them.

Hmm...and if we exclude the fact that between the QQ threads there are guys who offer real solutions to some problems but got swarmed by white knights to the point where new replies are not about rating the idea...then everyone who does not like the current state of beloved game have 3 options: A) play white maps, trying to enjoy the game as a game and pray for better times B) just quit forever C) offer professional solution to how GGG should run their own game and how GGG can make a $100M profit and anyway buy all recent supporter packs and/or create a third-party-program for free so the game feels more finished and enjoyable.
Yeah...NOFANX.
BTW i bet there would be twice more players playing the game often if:
1) GGG put just 10% more effort into the game - even MTXs are copy-paste of old stuff nowadays /but with prices that scare newbies/ - and they are not a small company anymore, they proved they can do cool stuff, but only when they want to do so
2) GGG did aim at 20ish weeks cycle instead of 13 weeks - not just because many casual/slow-tempo-players would have the time to enjoy the leagues more or try more skills before their nerfs, But also would Not have the Cybertrash'77 case where GGG showed us FU sign for holidays while in reality many players have the same dilemma which game to focus on: PoE betatest start of league or a new game they have waited to come out to try, w/e genre and name, its same problem that GGG didnt respect and only kind of solution to such cases was the "i had enough for this league" or even "league is over soon, doesnt worth playing when can enjoy X game"
3) GGG balance game around the majority of players and put extra hard mods for uber uber endgame /like 100% deli red maps, last waves of Simulacrums, uber Breachstones and 5ways we have now/ where their beloved 10-20k top supporters play >> like instead of: add OP Harvest > delete Harvest > add ok Harvest but due pro players abuse > nerf more Harvest > anyway nerf again Harvest - no matter the ones who abuse those are 2% of playerbase and for example couldve put gg crafts as option to whoever fight Oshabi for example where balancing the things would focussed on the problem itself and yet not lose tons of players who got spoiled via Harvest or get punished for something they did not abuse at all in reality.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

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Shagsbeard wrote:

Your appeal for "Last Epoc" (or whatever it's called) is based on the fact that you haven't played it for almost 10 years like you have PoE. It's new and shiny.

its not even shiney, its an ugly amateur hour attempt at an arpg. one with a lot of merits but it will never even come close to competing with poe, its not even trying to, its trying to be worthy of being a little side game like grim dawn managed. last time i tried it they haddent even worked out how to code proper controls that are standard in literally every other arpg ive ever played. it failed the most basic of mechanical things within the first 10 seconds of playing it, and were talking within the last year.





d2 is a joke. running around with an invent full of charms where you can only pick up 1 item because literal moronic level game design. ikea gear + build chip board flat pack, put on your warp armour and skip skip skip to the boss kill it pick up one item in ur little 1 item space inventory, id it then throw it on the floor, log and repeat and repeat because it literally has 0 endgame.

actual shit tier game, what a joke, its pathetic.


diablo 2 is to arpgs what doom 2 is to first person shooters. remember when diablo 2 was released? yeah it was hype, changed the gaming world. remember when doom 2 was released? same deal, nothing would ever be the same again.

you know what those games are in 2021? garbage. im 40 years old, i got more grey hairs than i have wisdom scrolls in standard league and i still cant muster up enough nostalgia to pretend these games that i loved as a kid are anything but a bad joke compared to the best of modern titles.


talking about D2R is like telling me lynchs dune was the better movie. its not even a matter of taste, its just wrong, its such a poor game in comparison that your subjective opinion on this piece of art is scientifically, factually wrong. thats how bad it is, its transcended opinion into the realm of the laws of mathematics. 2 + 2 = diablo 2 is an actual shit tier game thanks to poe completely rewriting what it means to be a good arpg.

D2 is so bad that D3 is probably more worthy of 100 hours of your time in 2021. its actually got endgame and you can pick up multiple items at the same time, immediately making it a playable game unlike d2 which is just a nostalgic meme.






there comes a point in everyones life when you got to admit 2 things to yourself, the original starwars new hope is a kids movie thats a bit shit and diablo 2 is pretty trash. people just need to come to terms with these things and move on. i know, i had the toys in the early 80s too, we all did, but its no excuse for pretending rogue one and solo arnt just better movies in pretty much every way possible.

So you bought D2R, how you liking it?

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Downfall89 wrote:

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I appreciate your reply. I didnt get the meaning of "hardcore players" to agree about that.

if the game were to collapse and disappear from existence tomorrow it would go down as the most successful long term arpg in the history of the genre. what diablo did for arpgs in terms of real time combat, item systems etc, poe has now done in terms of how you run a game for long term success. no arpg has come even remotely close to the sustained success of this game, its outrageous that its still here, that anyone still plays it, that its highest population leagues have been this year, nearly a decade on from release, absolutely insane.


people criticise their model, but if the game died tomorrow it would go down as THE example of the model you use for long term success in an arpg. anyone hoping to have 1/10 of the success of poe would immediately follow this model, and the reason no one else is doing it properly is because the idea of competing with poe is so obviously hopeless given how stupidly op path is.





the only company that even has the self belief to really try and challenge poe on its own terms is blizzard, when they finish d4 it will attempt to wrestle the crown back.

i think smart money says it will be very polished, it will be a game that does not have the insane bloat that poe suffers from, it will completely fail to provide a compelling item system that stands up to long term play, it will be fairly accessible to all levels of players but fail to provide enough content to hold dedicated arpg vets for sustained periods.

and that really is the only hope, diablo 4 is the only hope that arpgs have for anything that could even remotely compete with poe.

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DreadLordAvatar wrote:

So you bought D2R, how you liking it?

no, i didnt.

i played diablo 1 since release, diablo 2 since release, i played the beta of d2r, i know those games well enough to not spend money on pig with lipstick. if they let diablo 2 fully support extreme adjustment mods with their own multiplayer servers so that people who know how to make an arpg fit for 2021 can completely redesign that total garbagefire of a game then ill get it. if people can make a fully operational path of diablo resurrected that can server as an interesting little side game worthy of spending 1/10 of the time we put into poe on sign me up.

until then its rubbish, its so badly designed in so many ways. brevik wanted the diablo games to be turn based, he didnt even want it to have real time combat, this is the level of thinking that was going on when they were made. the flask system is unplayable, the charm system is unplayable, fundamental systems in that game would not last 15 seconds in a roundtable discussion on how to make an arpg in 2021, they would be laughed out of the room. the sprint system, the rune system... trash.

i was down to get d2r until they announced they wouldnt fully support proper mods at which point i completely wrote it off because the base game is shit.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

people criticise their model, but if the game died tomorrow it would go down as THE example of the model you use for long term success in an arpg. anyone hoping to have 1/10 of the success of poe would immediately follow this model, and the reason no one else is doing it properly is because the idea of competing with poe is so obviously hopeless given how stupidly op path is.

Whose success are we talking about? Obviously the game was a huge success for its creators. They got a multi million deal with a Chinese gaming giant.

I could not agree though, if someone told me having a 3-month business cycle model is good for a long-term decision making about this product, or pretty much for any product.

I'd argue that's actually a more widespread disease of doing things, and it also shows in many areas of contemporary life, but going there risks me going politics (as in, talking about society is of political nature!), so I'll just stop here.

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MECHanokl wrote:

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esostaks wrote:

Moreover I think people are ready to forgive some technical issues knowing that POE 2 is around the corner and hoping that it will be in a better technical state. It's pretty unreasonable to expect that the devs will put much effort to improve the technical state of their old engine...

You should keep in mind that PoE 2 will be done on the same engine. Moreover, it will be done by the same people who disregarded performance issues for many years at this point in the current game. In one of the PoE 2 videos with commentary from devs that I watched, Chris mentioned how every arrow stuck in the wall is an individual object... he was proud of it, but it is obviously not a good thing for the performance of a game like PoE.

There is example from Exilcon footage where a dev demonstrated the ability to spam skills.
He made a ranger ,i think, and enabled 100+ projectiles per console command. Game went to 1 fps without any other screenclutter around.

Devs seem proud to allow visual spam on the screen and most of it being permanently on the ground like monster corpses, gear (already toned back with loot filter changes) but at a cost.

I dont even know how they gauge what is recommended for game specs but assume its mostly campaign and non juiced non alc maps.

edit: Loopking at your signature. Try a Templar run if not already done. He has lots of new voices lines till act 10 and after he arrives in post campaign Oriath.

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canilaz_ wrote:

Well said. I agree, almost.
1)"best arpg" got less and less players over time last year? and those "missing" players are not only newbies and parents // exclude payday1
2) good things in game do Not "heavily outweigh" bad stuff anymore, because there are couple key things that ggg fucked up /fixable but we will remember/
3) PoE2 seems like a...best possible move from devs to: find an excuse for semi-finished product each 13 weeks, squeeze more $$$ from the current game, try to keep players engaged to PoE cycles, and jebait more players due shiny HD graphics and different campaign -for a while, if they do not stop with lazy strat and marketing BS.

1) Despite the claims that the game is 'dead/dying' the numbers are still pretty strong. Even after people were disappointment with 3.15 there were still 150 k at 3.16 launch on Steam alone if I remember correctly. That's how many people don't see any better ARPG alternatives on the market currently and are ready to return to POE every new league.
2) I said that the good things outweigh the bad for me. And apparently also for those who keep coming back each league. Despite some flaws I'm still yet to find any ARPG that provides the same amount of sheer content as POE does.

D2 / D2R - no real endgame, no thanks, surely amazing game for its time, but now even Wolcen, Grim Dawn and D3 beats it in terms of endgame

Grim Dawn - again not much to do in the endgame apart from infinite crucibles

D3 - doing infinite Greater Rifts and grinding infinite paragons? Count me out

Lost Ark - another Korean mobile-like game with time gated content where you have to create alt characters if you actually want to play more, not even interested, but might try

3) Don't really want to comment on devs' intentions because I'm not a mind-reader