Spell Suppression seems SERIOUSLY busted

so, the numbers are in, the PoB is in, we can do the math

math related to defences is simple:

Spell Supression is just broken AF.

Assumptions: endgame is very, very heavily spell-based. Pretty much all damage you take from endgame bosses is a spell, elemental spell (or physical->converted). Map clear less so, but i fully expect it to be elemental based 50/50 spell/attack at worst

If thats the case:

Armour is irrelevant. +3 max resist (for 5 passives!) is a joke of a fix. Armour in endgame brings no value.

Evasion.. vs bosses? Nope. During clear? It works.

Verdict? Get AR from flask if you must, EV from gear but dont waste a single passive for %increases, the basic level should be enough to make a difference

"

Enter Spell Suppression. 50% less damage from spells if you stack 100% of it.

I expected it being REALLY hard to stack. Like 'spell block from the tree' hard. Nope.

You get 30%+ 24% for 8 passives (7 + mastery if you have EV glove/boot/helm). And supposedly you can get 5-10% rolls on items


Why is that so busted?

Fortify and Suppression being single-layer defence mechanic.

~50% supression means that every second spell hitting you deals half damage, this is (on average) 25% FLAT, UNCONDITIONAL damage reduction

Fortify is 20% and you have to babysit this damn thing now.

Supression is ONE STAT. it is not based on your total EV, it is not a result of multiplication (base value * %increased). It is very cheap to get, very easy to stack and stack with other 'less damage taken' mechanics. There is no diminishing returns in place. Any player can get 100% (Rangers can do that in literally 10 passives and NO OTHER INVESTMENT)


Defenses rework is completely worthless if you replace one busted mechanic (dodge) that everyone relied on with another even more broken mechanic that is even easier to stack AND HAS NO CAP!
Armour after changes is the same piece of junk. Evasion is just the same 'get whatever you get for free'. And Spell Suppression is the new dodge but without the risk of failing the roll and dying.


GGG nerf this stuff now, youll have to do it in 3.17 anyway. Right now Spell Suppression - in endgame fights/encounters - is TWICE as good as Fortify and they stack with eachother for unconditional ~60% LESS spell hit damage taken. This is exploit level of power territory.

The majority of players are on softcore and if a defensive mechanic isn't strong enough they are all just going go ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ and stack more damage instead. It needs to be pretty powerful for people to even consider it.

That said 50% reduction of spell damage is still a whole lot less than what (spell) dodge gave you previously. So it will probably be fine, PoE is in dire need of more and better defense mechanics that don't need a silly amount of investment in order to be worth having.

"

Souchirou wrote:

That said 50% reduction of spell damage is still a whole lot less than what (spell) dodge gave you previously.

On average - yes. If we ignore life recovery and reality of damage distribution and tuning - yes.

In reality - no. It is far superior to what we had before. In reality, spell dodge 'killed you' every 4th big hit. With Suppression there are no 'big hits' any more.

Thats the exact same thing that made Fortify into something everyone wanted while various '15% chance to avoid some kind of damage' were regarded as worthless.

In this game '20% less from all hits' >>>> '20% hits avoided' even if on average it is the same total reduced damage.

Shut up, will you?

First, GGG showed us some new skills and masteries, people started theorycrafting around them, and then GGG listened to it and nerfed some interesting combinations. Then they showed a new shield that could be BIS for some builds, and when people noted that it's the only shield of that base type and so could be deterministically obtained through Trash to Treasure, they did this...
https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/qd3xxr/trash_to_trash/

Introducing absolute trash unique shield of same base base type just to screw it up, and had the audacity to rub it in our faces with the announcement.
Let us enjoy at least one thing done right in this patch. It's not THAT OP.

"

ExiledSarin wrote:

Shut up, will you?

First, GGG showed us some new skills and masteries, people started theorycrafting around them, and then GGG listened to it and nerfed some interesting combinations. Then they showed a new shield that could be BIS for some builds, and when people noted that it's the only shield of that base type and so could be deterministically obtained through Trash to Treasure, they did this...
https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/qd3xxr/trash_to_trash/

Introducing absolute trash unique shield of same base base type just to screw it up, and had the audacity to rub it in our faces with the announcement.
Let us enjoy at least one thing done right in this patch. It's not THAT OP.

This is a really bad take.

If something is overtuned, it should be nerfed. Getting mad about GGG deciding not to introduce an easily obtainable shield which would have appeared on 99% of ladder builds is just childish, them changing things before the patch dropped was the right move.

Let's go back in time.

I don't know if you were playing four years ago, but back in Abyss league Volatile Dead was introduced with a lab helmet enchantment that was insanely powerful. In effect, it made triggercast VD indisputably the best build possible, outclassing every other way to play the game. It was the entire ladder at the start of that league, and it was so completely broken that GGG did something they had never done before: they dropped a MASSIVE nerf 2 weeks into the league, which took about 75% of the power away from the build (it was still playable afterwards btw, which tells you how about how OP it initially was). This wasn't the "fixed how aura affect worked on non auras" bug debacle from delirium, this was a deliberate mid-league nerf to a system which was working as originally intended, because GGG felt that they couldn't let it last for three months without damaging the future of the game.

And a lot the community was furious, because triggercast VD had for obvious reasons become the meta of metas, and thus gearing for it was unbelievably expensive: any helm with the enchant was a dozen exalts, far more on a decent unique or crafting base, and I think Poet's Pens were multiple ex as well. Many people had been farming around the clock trying to accumulate enough currency to outpace the ever-rising prices of gear, only to log in one day and learn that their build was now balanced, and they'd spent hundreds of exalts on nothing. People quit playing on the spot; a member of my guild never came back afterwards because he saw it as a betrayal of sorts by GGG.

So when the community points out glaring balance issues like soul tethering to skitterbots or deterministically obtaining an incredibly powerful aspirational item via Trash to Treasure, and GGG listens to them and makes the change before the league starts, it's a GOOD THING.

Spell Suppression is a very nice thing currently that Evasion was in dire need for.

The truth is anyone will pick this with Raider just for the 40% suppression alone.
The result in 3.17 will be Spell Supression sources get halved everywhere and Raider gets nerfed again. It feels sad already knowing it but it makes me even more sad that armour builds dont got anything going. +3 max res for 5 skill points wont cut it.

the solution i see is coupling Spell Suppression cap with your EV. Right now you can have ZERO EV and capped Suppression. this is damn silly

"

sidtherat wrote:

the solution i see is coupling Spell Suppression cap with your EV. Right now you can have ZERO EV and capped Suppression. this is damn silly

Well since Spell Damage is such a huge threat yes thats how its going to be played no matter what evasion value you got.

Its a decent solution to attach Suppression to Evasion only builds but i think GGG wants Energy Shield builds and Armour builds to use it as Scourge will probably be slinging 90% of incoming damage as spell damage judging by their past design decisions.

Personally i will go Transcendence with full phys to ele dmg taken conversion until that goddamn broken Keystone is nerfed.

I think Spell Suppression is good as is.

With Spell Suppression you need much more investment in tree than you needed for Spell Dodge. And with suppression you can get ailments and be stunned, because you get hit, which didn't happen with with dodge, where you took no hit whatsoever.

if anyone is still unaware:

T1 rolls on shield/chest can reach 35%+ PER ITEM

crafting bench gives ~12% on shield/chest and ~7% on boot/helm/gloves

Compared to what had happened to Fortify (it is now actually difficult to keep up on some MELEE builds) this one is just absurd.

current passive values and gear values should be literally cut in HALF to make this mechanic even remotely balanced.

for all the cookie cutters here: go and abuse this mechanic because it is way stronger than it looks and it already looks absurd