Spell Suppression seems SERIOUSLY busted

Meanwhile, the juggernaut receives a tiny 8% reduced elemental damage taken on the totality of his ascendancy points. Isn't he supposed to be the tank class of the game?

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sidtherat wrote:

the solution i see is coupling Spell Suppression cap with your EV. Right now you can have ZERO EV and capped Suppression. this is damn silly

To be honest from playing this league, doing full EV with spell surpression has problems and thats mainly due to normal non spell physical damage. Ever since basalt flask got nerfed and the aura change (making running things like Arctic armor harder ontop of your other auras), getting decent amounts of physical damage reduction is more difficult if you just focus on EV. Full EV with surpression might be fine with bosses, but in maps with hordes of enemies (where you can't really take advantage of the EV entropy mechanic) is still a big problem.

Right now, spell suppression + armor (with grace/iron reflex's) is where its at.

Regarding the whole deterministic mitigation is always better than dodge/evasion based, you are completely correct here. I just think this is a more fundamental issue with the game where you only have a single "life" that is gone when you die and as long as this is the case deterministic damage reduction will always be superior assuming the cost of getting it is equal.

I played a bit of Wolcen and although the game had many faults, one feature that it had is that you didn't just have a single life but you had 3 (i.e. a revival mechanic). This meant that dodge/evasion builds in that game weren't disadvantaged by the "get one shot by that random hit that you didn't roll dodge for". This feature had a better equilibrium between the deterministic and change based damage mitigation. Not saying that GGG has to go for revival mechanic but there are other ideas they could implement (i.e. trigger gem that occurs before something evaded/dodged, or a flask effect that triggers just before dodging/evading a hit with a CD)

I do generally agree that even though spell suppression is clearly overtuned, its also just revealing fundamental issues with the game i.e. GGG just liberally used the same mechanic (massive high damage spells) for endgame boss content. If as a matter of game design you are always going to use the same mechanic to gate difficulty you are always going to create these problems.

Spell suppression needs tuning but GGG also needs to go back to the drawing board on endgame damage content for bosses, having all endgame boss damage generally be in the form of spells was going to break down at some point and we just needed something like spell suppression to reveal it.

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Almateran wrote:

Meanwhile, the juggernaut receives a tiny 8% reduced elemental damage taken on the totality of his ascendancy points. Isn't he supposed to be the tank class of the game?

That area of the tree has so many maximum elemental resistance nodes (especially the cluster between marauder and duelist giving you +3 max to all elemental resistances) that this is meant to be the primary intended mechanic for elemental damage reduction and GGG said so in the manifesto for the patch.

The idea is the for bottom right side of tree you are meant to get for spell suppression and for the bottom left you are meant to go max elemental res (obviously the issue right now is that spell suppression is stronger but the idea is that juggernaughts are meant to get for max elemental res)

I feel Spell Suppression isn't the problem.

The real problem are the lack of opportunities to increase the amount of damage suppressed.

I gave Spell Suppression a shot, and got as far as I felt I could with my TR Raider. White Maps, it was fantastic. Yellow Maps, got a little dicier as I got to higher tiers. Soon as I hit Red Maps, Spell Suppression was worthless because it wasn't mitigating enough damage based on the number of times I was getting hit by spells. Wasn't uncommon to die in a second when I scourge near a large group of spell-casting mobs with no time to react.

I'm back to using Acrobatics. Reasons being, there is no longer a block or ES penalty, so rolling the dice with Spell Dodge has been the best way to go. However, I still die every other red map due to a bad roll of the dice.

To improve Spell Suppression, there should be a reward for Spell Suppression over the cap, just as Acrobatics rewards 75% Spell Dodge for reaching 150% Suppression.

So therefore, it is IMO, that if a player wants to stick with Spell Suppression, they should be able to get additional spell damage suppresion based on how far they're over the Spell Suppression cap, up to a max of 75% suppressed Spell Damage mitigation.

There could be many ways to implement this, such as a keystone that reduces other defenses as a trade-off (like Acrobatics once did with ES and block.)

Throwing some examples:
Spell Damage mitigation from Suppressed Spells is based on Evasion Rating.
Cannot evade or block enemy attacks.

OR

Spell Damage mitigation from suppressed spells is based on Evasion Rating, up to 75%
Chance to Evade enemy attacks or mitigate attack damage cannot exceed 50%.

I think you could plug in many different detriments for these examples and it would balance the concept.

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Almateran wrote:

Meanwhile, the juggernaut receives a tiny 8% reduced elemental damage taken on the totality of his ascendancy points. Isn't he supposed to be the tank class of the game?

This. Lets see 50% with barley any investment or 8% with full investment in a no DPS class. Hmm wonder why only 1% play Jugg and only that many because broken Bone Shatter which sucks for everything but boss. Would be like fractions of a percentage otherwise.

Also lets compare to 75% capped spell block. YOu still take 100% damage 25% of of the time for massive investment. Whereas Spression 50% damage always for again almost no investment.

Its also like they moved mitigation to right side of tree and only chance stuff is on the left now.

Broke AF and anyone who doesnt think so is lying to themselves or us protecting something so overpowered everyone is doing it.

Duelist, champion was always better than Jugg, he is so broken now because he gets Fortify plus suppression on top of it all in many builds he makes Jugg look like a wet noodle.

Edit yes I know jugg can get weaker fortify and path over to right side of tree too for supression but doing that he has even more pathetic DPS than he has now.

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LethargicGirafe wrote:

I feel Spell Suppression isn't the problem.

The real problem are the lack of opportunities to increase the amount of damage suppressed.

I gave Spell Suppression a shot, and got as far as I felt I could with my TR Raider. White Maps, it was fantastic. Yellow Maps, got a little dicier as I got to higher tiers. Soon as I hit Red Maps, Spell Suppression was worthless because it wasn't mitigating enough damage based on the number of times I was getting hit by spells. Wasn't uncommon to die in a second when I scourge near a large group of spell-casting mobs with no time to react.

I'm back to using Acrobatics. Reasons being, there is no longer a block or ES penalty, so rolling the dice with Spell Dodge has been the best way to go. However, I still die every other red map due to a bad roll of the dice.

To improve Spell Suppression, there should be a reward for Spell Suppression over the cap, just as Acrobatics rewards 75% Spell Dodge for reaching 150% Suppression.

So therefore, it is IMO, that if a player wants to stick with Spell Suppression, they should be able to get additional spell damage suppresion based on how far they're over the Spell Suppression cap, up to a max of 75% suppressed Spell Damage mitigation.

There could be many ways to implement this, such as a keystone that reduces other defenses as a trade-off (like Acrobatics once did with ES and block.)

Throwing some examples:
Spell Damage mitigation from Suppressed Spells is based on Evasion Rating.
Cannot evade or block enemy attacks.

OR

Spell Damage mitigation from suppressed spells is based on Evasion Rating, up to 75%
Chance to Evade enemy attacks or mitigate attack damage cannot exceed 50%.

I think you could plug in many different detriments for these examples and it would balance the concept.

Play champion you won't die. I actually thought about play HC again with my 80 pings after standing in t16 maps idle and letting mobs bang on me. He has everything all wrapped into one. We all know layered defenese way to go and he has in spades. Extra Strength fortify always 20 too. Armor. Evasion. 100% Spell spression in most builds done these days. etc.

Don't forget ghost dance lol
Its another absurdly powerful defensive layer for evasion based characters. I can't say how many times it makes me go from almost dead to instant full ES.

All the good defenses are now on the right side of tree. Block/spell block is good but its just too hard to cap it for most builds. Meanwhile you can get 100% spell suppression from 4 pieces of gear..

Champs are doing ghost dance too. Even is only 700ES from one item it's a cheap layer of EHP. 1pt.

Are you seriously suggesting they take the only valid defense left in the game away???

Why would anybody make a post like this....

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Rakie1337 wrote:

Are you seriously suggesting they take the only valid defense left in the game away???

Why would anybody make a post like this....

not take it away, but currently its just too easy to get 100%. I bet they're gonna rebalance the numbers on the tree and rare affixes

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stalkingjackal wrote:

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Rakie1337 wrote:

Are you seriously suggesting they take the only valid defense left in the game away???

Why would anybody make a post like this....

not take it away, but currently its just too easy to get 100%. I bet they're gonna rebalance the numbers on the tree and rare affixes

Spell Suppression should be easily obtainable for evasion builds, which is why most of the nodes are on the right side, as for the 100% or over, It's to allow us to convert it to dodge if we get 150% spell suppression, converting it to 75% spell dodge.

Evasion builds have always been shit, and now that we have a good mechanic to deal with spells, you guys are crying about it... Seriously?

Edit: You're also forgetting that, now we have to spend additional passives on it, that means that we have to sacrifice something for them, same goes for it on gear.