Diablo 2 was popular for its multiplayer aspects, not its single player. Yall need to learn that.

Basically to sum it up.

You crazy man... hahahaha.

Nah, of course Diablo 2 was excellent with respect to the multiplayer aspect. BUT THE lore to the game, the history is what drew a great number of what we call today, OLD HEADS.

The game was epic solo and if you can not see it, shame on you. But to say it wasn't part of the equation why that game today is still considered, dare I say it... The best game ever made...

Just shooting some arrows off..

Not seeing anyone mention:

-Mules
-Ladder specific rune words

Back in the day you couldn't mule offline without doing some LAN workaround that was less convenient than doing it with Bnet. Nowadays I play offline with a stash mod, but it was just easier to do what you wanted to do with Bnet back then.

The runewords were just a psychological thing, you don't really put them together solo more often than not but the idea that you can't is more off putting than the idea that you probably won't. It's nice to have all options available if you choose, including multiplayer, even if I can count my multiplayer experiences in D2 on one hand.

Also the barrier to entry for multiplayer in PoE is performance, if the game wasn't trying to max out the limitations of the engine with nonsense and experimental rendering techniques then multiplayer might be good. It's not worth building a 2 grand pc just for PoE to graduate from slideshow mode though. Yes I'm exaggerating a bit, but PoE barely scrapes by in single player on reasonable PCs and often still does not when it needs to spawn a roomful of monsters all at once with rituals etc where it hits single digit framerates.

Yes yes I'm very happy for all you people who don't have such issues, your PC is godlike and you are much better than the rest of us. Congratulations.

Because single player games are part of a multi-layered genre that came out before the internet? That were inspired by group tabletops, ultimately, but the tech wasn't quite there yet. Once d2 hit (I presume, was just starting kindergarten), it expanded the reach through multiple instances of games with multiple people. Dialup was slow, yes, but it was a step forward into the future!

The concept of d2 was amazing because of its multiplayer from what I understand. It was revolutionary and that's why people found WoW palatable, because there was a precedent set in the form of d2. It was genre-defining, and incredibly good for its time. But let's not pretend everyone is cut from the same cloth and say it was *only* multiplayer systems that garnered its success. It was the entire game, not just one aspect. I've never personally played it, but I watched a lot of let's plays and the gripping thing was ultimately the nuanced combat system that hooked players in (for the time)

The replies have been good. So I don't want to get too wild with my responses. I still wish their was more variety to the POE scene. Or variety to the type of person who scouts these forums. Tho it seems PVE'ers ran off " variety " long ago.

:) To the guy who asked about PVE-Andy lol. It's a term Asmon uses, to describe a generic fashion-dresser, when having a costume content. A " Fire-lands Andy ". I only started using it for pve'ers, when being outnumbered on a previous pvp thread.

On a silly off-topic note. I was watching a Chris stream with like 6 top POE streamers. They were all dressed in black, half with glasses, & black hair. They all looked like metal heads, who worked at a library. After that, I'm guessing that's what solo pve'rs dress like. ha.

The Ultima online response was refreshing. I was like " finally a fellow pvper! yeaaasss! " than it got to the end & the guy believes some mediocre slogan of core game mechanics being ruined, which I don't share that sentiment.

The Ultima online example, doesn't say to me, " hey adding more content to the game ruined it ", it just says to me " PVE'ers ruined it ". Which is essentially what's happening with POE now in my opinion. PVE'ers are holding this game back, big time. However I know not everyone agrees with that, so touche.

I will be downloading Final Fantasy for social aspects, yet that game has no pvp, so pvpers don't have a game to go to right now. I'll still want social updates + pvp updates for POE, no matter what mmorpg I play. Because I'll still have characters invested in POE, that I'll want to talk to other players, or test these builds against (when online).

I can tell these POE forums, have a lot of mmorpg novices. Only mmorpg novices would want to separate these aspects from this game. You will say otherwise & tell me how you play mmorpg's too, but I'll still believe this.

POE holds my interest for 1 year, with pve-only content, than I'll move to a new game, maybe even sooner. Than I'll give it another 3 years if they add social town updates, & another 3 years if they add pvp updates.

To the guy talking about his wife playing & waiting for her 2 mins in town, driving him crazy. Well that's what wrong with the parties of this game. For new players or any player really, it's just some rapid rush, of having to keep up with some guy rushing rooms, like sonic the hedgehog. Diablo 2's party system, when I played it during its prime years, had rushing, but not as bad as POE's is. The pace was still pleasant, after you teleported to your skipped Act. So ye behaving as if 2 minutes in town is too long, while wanting to skip through zones, as fast as you can = really explains why the party system needs work. Or town experience. The game has zero social aspects, 10 people panning through a stash, then bailing, every time = the town experience. No amount of playing other mmorpg's, is going to make me not want that altered for the better (when I do hop on POE). Thus bigger towns, population size, & more events in town. While making guilds hangout in town / not hideouts.

I've already written my opinions about how pvp balances pve, 100%. On my topic, " Why do mobile games have better pvp than poe, or games with less cash shop funding or playerbase?". Even if they have to re-work defense scaling, against the dps 1 shot antics. So yeah, in my opinion, without having to go into detail again; PVP exposes item imbalances, exposes the top 1% builds, balances all of that, & balances range vs melee as well.

Silent majority or minority, I'm bored with the league talks. I'll skip through 2 hours of an interview, wishing they'd talk about anything else. Bigger skill trees? Nope. Randomized skill trees? Nope. Bigger social towns? Nope. Group PVP siege maps? Nope. Fun events not segregated to a side mode? Nope. Anything else other than end-game pve discussion? Nope. *yawns*

I still believe this community uses these words or excuses too much, when describing a variety of content: " Too hard, impossible, not possible, unlikely, how will they this, how will they that? " I really wait for the guy who's pro positive on this matter & just blatantly says, " JUST DO IT! ". Sure beats writing a thesis paper on why all these things are possible.

Honestly I'd like to see 20 more threads that have nothing to do with PVE. Or at least nothing to do with endgame pve or items as much. Doesn't have to be pvp related or social related, but anything else would be sweet. If you don't have the content to talk about other stuff, than talk about not having the content. & vote toward it.

Besides the technical aspects of how they have turned a single player game, into a multiplayer game, & the updates needed to turn it into a MMO next. Besides that. It seems many are stuck in the past, regardless of the topic at hand.

"

PrairieTutanka wrote:

The Ultima online response was refreshing. I was like " finally a fellow pvper! yeaaasss! " than it got to the end & the guy believes some mediocre slogan of core game mechanics being ruined, which I don't share that sentiment.

The Ultima online example, doesn't say to me, " hey adding more content to the game ruined it ", it just says to me " PVE'ers ruined it ". Which is essentially what's happening with POE now in my opinion. PVE'ers are holding this game back, big time. However I know not everyone agrees with that, so touche.

How a PvM game like this can possibly be held back by PvMers? It doesn't make sense to me honestly.
On top of the general principles I've explained in the previous reply, GGG doesn't seems to be able to balance this game in Pvm, just imagine in Pvp what can they do lol.
And imagine what the crowd here could be able to do once a nerf hit their Pvp.. Jesus I get headache only imaging it :D

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

this is an arpg game, the most successful arpg ever made, literally millions of people play it still after 8 years. its more popular than diablo 2 was, its as popular as an arpg could ever hope to be, its redefined how popular an arpg can be. people play this game the way people who love arpgs want to play arpgs. that, for the most, is on their own or sometimes in small parties of friends. the reason 'being signed into battlenet' makes arpgs better is because it gives the items you find more potential value via the potential for trade and the brag factor in the fact you have it and wont trade it to that guy who covets it even though you could. thats what the draw of the battlenet is.

I love POE, but I'm pretty sure the Diablo franchise holds the crown for most successful. I think D1 through D3 sold like 100 million copies (ish).

D2 is over two decades old and still has a loyal following. Hell, that following is about to pay 35 dollars for what is effectively a new paint job. Part of me wants to get it if I'm being quite honest, even though I know it's just a fresh coat of paint and nothing else.

I do think POE is the current standard bearer, but they've not dethroned the king (yet).

the only things i ever did multiplayer in d2 was get rushed or rush people baal/uber grind for exp to 99 or pvp

there isnt really rushing in this game and if you want to party global 820 for rotas you can do that all you want

there was literally no reason to party in d2 unless you want to risk getting your loot taken

i spent 90% of my time farming bosses/zones solo in d2 the rest in pvp or trade once i hit high level


im not sure if we played the same game or not..... how many level 99 did you have?
how many ladders did you play?
how many accounts of hr mules, bugged eth repair items did you have?

cus i had a lot
and i played mostly solo

"

RitualMurder wrote:

the only things i ever did multiplayer in d2 was get rushed or rush people baal/uber grind for exp to 99 or pvp

there isnt really rushing in this game and if you want to party global 820 for rotas you can do that all you want

there was literally no reason to party in d2 unless you want to risk getting your loot taken

i spent 90% of my time farming bosses/zones solo in d2 the rest in pvp or trade once i hit high level


im not sure if we played the same game or not..... how many level 99 did you have?
how many ladders did you play?
how many accounts of hr mules, bugged eth repair items did you have?

cus i had a lot
and i played mostly solo

If this topic was solely about keeping the multiplayer aspects, at the level of Diablo 2, than sure. Tho it's not, it's about evolving this games multiplayer, beyond what Diablo 2 had. So any mentions of what Diablo 2 lacked, in multiplayer features, further supports the topic of evolving POE beyond what battle.net lobbies had.

As for playing with others during D2, played with tons of middle school friends & leveled up through the acts in a non rushed pace with tons of people. To say somebody only plays with others for the end-game boss loot, is just you, or a type of person. I sure played with others whenever I wanted, during any stage of the game. Not just for " loot either "..

Had plenty of 99's, would even party for the Cow Level or the quest to get the parts to enter it. Really party for anything. As for ladder, well if the multiplayer theme isn't that important to you, than neither should ladder, because those 2 things are connected. Ladder is to show off to " other players ". Unless it's some personal achievement, but that's a lame way to go about it. Like console game single player achievements, meh.

Also I mentioned " prime years of d2 ", which weren't the years after with all these no lifers, nor dupers. Nor lobbies for just boss runs mainly. Those years had all types of lobbies.

Either way regardless, saying Diablo 2 lacks multiplayer features, is identically saying that POE lacks multiplayer features. Or added missing, reasons to party.

Thus update the multiplayer features, GGG.


P.s.

From Diablo 2 to Diablo 3, the majority of pc players, played 10 years of MMORPG's in between that time. 10 years. Evolve or perish.

"

Nubatron wrote:

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

this is an arpg game, the most successful arpg ever made, literally millions of people play it still after 8 years. its more popular than diablo 2 was, its as popular as an arpg could ever hope to be, its redefined how popular an arpg can be. people play this game the way people who love arpgs want to play arpgs. that, for the most, is on their own or sometimes in small parties of friends. the reason 'being signed into battlenet' makes arpgs better is because it gives the items you find more potential value via the potential for trade and the brag factor in the fact you have it and wont trade it to that guy who covets it even though you could. thats what the draw of the battlenet is.

I love POE, but I'm pretty sure the Diablo franchise holds the crown for most successful. I think D1 through D3 sold like 100 million copies (ish).

D2 is over two decades old and still has a loyal following. Hell, that following is about to pay 35 dollars for what is effectively a new paint job. Part of me wants to get it if I'm being quite honest, even though I know it's just a fresh coat of paint and nothing else.

I do think POE is the current standard bearer, but they've not dethroned the king (yet).

D2 at its height sold 2 million copies, that was in its opening months, its then dribbled out up to 4 million over the next 20 years since release. most d2 players i know have like 4+ copies. the initial burst over the sort of 3 month period a poe league runs for, which was the big initial burst of the game and probably its highest ever concurrent player based was 2 million. chris has said this league running now, that is the least popular league this year by far, has had "millions" of unique players playing it. thats plural, minimum 2, at a minimum this league is as popular as the height of diablo 2.

the expansion for diablo 2 the year after sold 1 million copies in the same period, half as much as the original. so after 1 year they had lost 50% of people basically, and i will bet you most of those people were play the game once single player style and walk away people. this game has had at a minimum the same numbers as diablo 2 peak playing every league for the last 2 or 3 years, every 3 months, probably beating it on all of them.

diablo 3 sales copies goes like this, when they sold game time in wow you got a copy of diablo 3 with it as a combined purchase (giving away d3 for free), so everyone who got wow time counted towards a copy of diablo 3, and a lot of them played it, once, and then went back to wow. when they sold reaper of souls it came with diablo 3 the original, i got reaper of souls expansion and mine came with another diablo 3. so I count as 3 sales of diablo 3, my mrs counts as 3 and she got her original free with wow time and then just paid for the expansion. so theres 2 of us, we count for 6 sales of diablo 3 and ros, and bliz gives the sales numbers for them combined like that, and i got the game and expansion she just paid for the expansion, so we are 2 players, bought 3 things, count as 6 sales.

diablo 3 at the time was quoted as losing about 75% of its player base within a month, because most people who got it played it through, finished it and went oh ok i enjoyed that and then went to another single player game that you play through.

the amount of people who stuck around playing diablo 3 was a lot of people but it was a small fraction of their massively padded sales figures. path of exiles player count even now is like double diablo 3, and this is the worst performing league of the year up against the best league content wise diablo 3 has put out probably ever.


its one thing to pad your sales figures and say hey we sold 20 million copies of d3/ros when youve given away at least half of those one way or another, its another to actually have people think your game is great and play it consistently for years. no diablo game has had the consistent players poe has coming back every league, even an awful player count league like this.

The post above mentioning all the copies of Diablo 2 disks people had, was funny, I forgot about that. People even had to have mac cd or pc versions. Plus copies of burned disks they made for friends.