Get rid of the xp loss

GGG: Request denied - there will be no fun had here!

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ShadoonX wrote:

I've never seen a system a video game devaulue a player's time and effort as this stupid feature does. It doesn't help that the game becomes very unfair the more effort/ time it takes to kill enemies. It's extremely offensive.

Not sure if trolling...

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jsuslak313 wrote:

the POINT is that you try new content like a boss etc. and you LEARN that your build can't handle it yet. You eat that death, but then you know to grind more / change things before dying again. That is precisely the reason WHY there needs to be a death penalty.

I get that, and to some extent agree, but I have issues with its current implementation. Sometimes, I'm just going about my day, killing mobs/bosses and doing maps, and then die out of nowhere. It's hard to derive a lesson from that because I don't know if I'm just too weak, if I just got unlucky and can handle the fight if I try again immediately, or if I got really unlucky and died due to something outside of my control (offscreen hit, crazy crit from normal enemy, disconnection death). I can guess at which is the case, but I can't *know* whether I should dust myself off and go back in immediately, or whether I'm just going to get destroyed.

Of course, I have encountered fights that I know will kill me if I try them again, and I tend to avoid doing them again.

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In SC, the ONLY penalty that has meaning is loss of exp or loss of items. You are essentially playing against yourself, and being unable to level due to frequent deaths is a fitting punishment designed to make you rethink your build and how to progress. God help us all if we lose items every time we die....like others said, imagine running a multi-exalt or fully juiced map and losing your portals instead. Much much much higher cost, but really the only other way to penalize death in a PvM game.

Depending on the circumstances, I might rather give up the items I got while in a given map than 10% XP, but that's just me. In a crazy lucrative map, I'd probably rather take the XP hit. The weirdest thing is that the XP penalty makes for a bizarre incentive while playing - take ridiculous risks right after leveling and play insanely conservatively when at 90+% to the next level.

Maybe they could do something like let you get to the spot where you died or kill the enemy responsible for killing you to regain some or all of the lost XP? In that case I could make a reasonable second attempt at a fight if I think I just got unlucky, and only get really punished if I'm totally off base?

Otherwise I would welcome "Training wheels mode for people who can't beat A5 Sirus because they insist on playing SSF RF" mode. But I'm weird like that.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

@shadeless: the POINT is that you try new content like a boss etc. and you LEARN that your build can't handle it yet. You eat that death, but then you know to grind more / change things before dying again. That is precisely the reason WHY there needs to be a death penalty.

It is a GRINDING game. You don't quit when things get hard, you go back to the drawing board, go back to lower content and GRIND until you can go back and overcome the harder stuff. Are you suggesting that you completely quit the game every time something becomes challenging? Cuz you are playing the wrong genre my friend. What's the point of improving if you die? uh...you died...so improve and don't die the next time!

As for whether the comment made sense or not, I never said it didn't make sense. I just completely disagree with it.


In SC, the ONLY penalty that has meaning is loss of exp or loss of items. You are essentially playing against yourself, and being unable to level due to frequent deaths is a fitting punishment designed to make you rethink your build and how to progress. God help us all if we lose items every time we die....like others said, imagine running a multi-exalt or fully juiced map and losing your portals instead. Much much much higher cost, but really the only other way to penalize death in a PvM game.

Ok I sign up for losing all items but not the xp! I would just have sold the 4 ex map then instead of running it, with my rng it actually would be better anyways then running and trying a map out myself.

^90% of the time, thats true haha! Selling is usually going to net you a better return on ANYTHING.

I guess it boils down to my own personal preference: getting to 95 is no problem, if you map regularly with a decent build you will hit 95 pretty quickly without doing anything special (including deaths). Beyond that, it really doesn't matter to me. So this 10% death punishment doesn't interrupt my gameplay at all, whereas any other punishment would be far more severe.

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Sabranic_SilverDeth wrote:

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ShadoonX wrote:

I've never seen a system a video game devaulue a player's time and effort as this stupid feature does. It doesn't help that the game becomes very unfair the more effort/ time it takes to kill enemies. It's extremely offensive.

Not sure if trolling...

right everyone who complains about certain mechanics is trolling :D
not sure if you troll tho xD

The XP penalty is pretty meaningless until one gets into the mid nineties level. The purpose of the penalty is not really to punish people. It is really to make getting to level 100 a chase goal.

GGG decided long ago that having this level 100 chase is worth more than the cost of irritating some players with the XP penalty. I really don't think GGG will ever change their mind on this.

To be fair it is one of the most requested changes in the game. And there is good reason for it. If you had a combat log to see what killed you then i would say you have the tools to make informed choices to not die. Without a combat log some deaths are head scratchers.

I agree that you get XP fast enough at lower levels for deaths not to matter too much, but as you get over 90's it hurts more and more. That is the issue, the number of people who in mid 90's start to play uber defensive mode so they don't die does not make it more fun. I think 10% at high levels is way too much when you look at how long it takes to gain the XP. It needs to be 1% xp at level 99, 2% at level 98 and son on until it hits 5%.

By doing this you will find more people enjoying content, it is still a massive grind to 100. More people playing is good for the game, putting people off playing isn't.

remove the exp loss, kill the game.

everyone wants simpliicy/easy mode now because so many developers not only cater to this mindset but reinforce/program it into their players, POE is not that type of game and hopefully never will be.


There are ways to combat the exp loss but it will have to come at a cost, i have posted many times about this..

Have a consumable item that has several tiers ranging from 5-10% exp loss reduction all the way up to say 90-100% reduction in lost exp depending on the tier..

These items would craft into higher tier items at an unfavorable exchange rate ex: if the lowest tier gives 10% exp loss reduction than 3 of them would only give a 20% exp loss reduction item.

The items would be consumed upon death and it would use either the lowest or highest one in your inventory depending on how cruel ggg feels.

They would be just under the rarity of an exalt for the lowest tier and below a mirror for the final tier

This discussion has been had 100 times before.

I think the discussion is just a sign of the times. Gamers these days, whether they'll admit it or not, are used to being held in their hands through a lot of their gaming experience. Nothing wrong with that.

But Wraeclast isn't meant to be a "forgiving" environment. PoE has always embraced the fact that there's no sense of accomplishment if there's not a possibility to fail.

Do I think that the XP penalty should be removed? No. Do I think it's perfect? No. I would like some sort of D2 mechanic, where you're able to retrieve at least some of your lost XP - if you manage to kill what killed you or retrieve your corpse or whatever.