Get rid of the xp loss

we must lose exp but will be nice to have a mod which we can copy past our char with current gear and to respec tree/edid gear in order to try out all types of bosses under any types of buffs/debuffs we desire to test our limits outside of the game , you can skip all story and get good introduction to all types of crafting options in game to improve your gear or get it even worse with lower stats to really test your limits and to improve game play , to pick any type of boss and arena or maybe even mix those up without any cost , you wont get to keep any gear/exp or what not but that will be great way to learn what better to avoid and what possible to conquer tho its suppose to be under huge spoiler alert for those who really want to dicover the game or maybe to unlock after taken certin end game boss.

also maybe cool mod with layout which our char as AI without us controling it gets to enounter all types of mobs in straight line with all possible radius full with mobs to see aoe in action and all sorts of interactions and to see dps and dmg taken in real time to take notes.

and i dont think anyone will deserve to ask that remove exp penalty again if we get those mods ;)

i must add that after i hit my 1st 100 the smile i had on my face hurt for an hour in a good way the 2nd time i got to 100 was ok and the 3rd and last was meh and ever since never set as a goal , so you really get the point of how those 5 last points from 95 to 100 will affect your char its not a must really and more of a min/max thing if you got to 100 already few times atleast im my case.

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Sabranic_SilverDeth wrote:

"

Turtledove wrote:

A strawman argument means setting up a false argument and then refuting that false argument instead of the real argument. Since I wasn't setting up any argument nor refuting any argument.

Perhaps this might help

Yes. What you attempted to do.

Badly.

Concluding that you didn't read ARealLifeCaribbeanPirate post is not making any false argument nor is it refuting any argument. Refuting and concluding are not the same.

Maybe this will help?
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/refute#English
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/conclude

"

Turtledove wrote:

Concluding that you didn't read ARealLifeCaribbeanPirate post is not making any false argument nor is it refuting any argument. Refuting and concluding are not the same.

Maybe this will help?
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/refute#English
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/conclude

You're bad at this.

/dismiss.

"

Sabranic_SilverDeth wrote:

"

FutureFear wrote:

I also wonder why GGG still keeps it around:
1. Despite players' complaints
2. Reduced/nerfed power, making end game a lot harder for a lot of builds.
3. (b)locking skill points behind an insane time-consuming grind.
4. 90% of the player base not even having a max level (100) character.

1: Players complain about literally every single system in this game. Complaints do not make it bad.

2: Your build is your choice. You have the freedom to pursue what you find most fun, or what is most optimal for a given task. Choice is good. Complaining about the consequences of said choice is silly.

3: 95 is easy to get for most builds. Those last five skill points will not make a build. They will not break a build, and they will not have any measurable impact on a build. Five points is background static considering the build guides will already get EVERYTHING you need with many discretionary points to burn.

4: This is a good thing. It makes it an achievement to chase. Having difficult goals keeps the game healthy.

"

FutureFear wrote:

My highest level ever was 97, and I didn't even bother trying to reach LVL 100 because of the exp penalty; one death is like 2 weeks of my time at that point... Not really the most enjoyable experience!

Improve your play, improve your build or improve your gear. Or accept that you will hit an impasse at some point.

I do have to correct a few statements here though.

1: People complain because in their eyes those systems are actually bad. Of course, it doesn't mean it's bad for everyone, but if several different people complain about the same thing, well something might as well be bad/wrong about it.

2: Not entirely true, depending on the nerfs (or buffs) of certain skills and items the builds using those will either work or not in the current state of the game. -> there is a reason why Chris showed up in all those streams to answer questions and acknowledge their mistakes.
Add to that we've just lost 40-70% power on a lot builds, which means that a lot of builds that were fun to play aren't playable anymore in End-game content.

3. Then explain why 90% of players/builds don't reach LVL 95...?
Also, 5 skill points can do a lot for some builds; an extra medium cluster jewel, those last life nodes to reach 5-6K+ life or ES... extra defense or damage, etc.
It does help a lot more since we lost a lot of power this league...

4. Time vs reward is almost non-existant for reaching LVL 100 hence why I even don't want to invest the time. For me as a player, it feels more like a chore or burden than an achievement.
-> I rather chase better/special gear that drops from some boss fights, than grind mindlessly to reach something without getting any value in return.

-> Time is a precious thing, something we can't get back once it's gone; so yes even while gaming people tend to go for the most rewarding things with the least time involved. "Time is money"


Easy to say to improve, sadly a lot of players hit an endless cycle in Path of exile; where improving a build requires skill points, to gain them you need to level. However, you keep dying from the monsters that give the exp to level; losing more exp than gaining, and because of it being unable to improve their build. Unfortunately, they need the improvement to not die from the monsters...

Also, note that not every player can invest a ton of time into playing games, a league is roughly 3-4 months long, where the majority of "action" is only in the first month. -> After that time, items are getting scarce and prices skyrocket because of fewer people playing (less supply).
-> This means those people have to even play longer to get the currency to buy the items they need, with a chance it not being available anymore by the time they "farmed" the currency.

So yes for quite a few players losing 10% exp every time they die is hard. They do not simply lose a few maps, they lose an entire day or even week of playing the game. -> even though it's only a few hours of playtime; some people can only play an hour per day or even less...
After a while it doesn't feel like an achievement anymore, it starts to feel like you're been punished ALL THE TIME.

Changing it to only lose the exp gained in the current content, like exp gained on that map, in that heist contract, after starting a delve, etc. seems to me like a much more reasonable solution, than being able to lose 99% of your exp if you die 10 times in a row...

You're entitled to your opinions on how things feel and such. But not everyone is supposed to hit that magical 100 number. Much like the end-game content - this field is intentionally restricted. There are ways you can make that easier - ROTAS, tanky builds, playing in good groups, ect. I suggest you examine those options.

As to why most people don't reach very high levels? That's more factors than we can cover here. But, frankly, I don't see that as a bad thing.

Also, if five points post 90 is breaking your build, it is not a very good build. Five more points can buy a small increase. Very small. Good builds hit the important nodes and utilize their cluster-jewels well before even 90.

If those last five points are anything other than fluff, something is really wrong with your character's tree.

Time and how its spent is subjective. You can try to optimize your playtime based on whatever metric you want. That doesn't mean it will be the best, or even jive with the game as it exists. I have two characters logged in to sell things, and I post here, for example - and I find that an efficient use of my time. Some folks would have a fit over that. I shrug and do as I wish.

"

Easy to say to improve, sadly a lot of players hit an endless cycle in Path of exile; where improving a build requires skill points, to gain them you need to level. However, you keep dying from the monsters that give the exp to level; losing more exp than gaining, and because of it being unable to improve their build. Unfortunately, they need the improvement to not die from the monsters...

First of all, reaching level 90 is easy. Any additional skill points u get beyond this level should be treated as bonus.

I am totally disagree with your statement that improving a build requires skill point (from the standpoint of beyond level 90). That 5 or 10 additional skill point wont make u survive better if u already dying alot in level 90. The reason is simple, its not about skill point, its about YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND why u are dying. Its a signal from game telling you how bad your defense is and you need to do something about that. IF your defense is optimal yet keep dying, then its either your positioning and side stepping is really bad, or you are stupid enough to do the map your build can't handle. For the records, doing maps like (crits chance/multiplier + speed + extra elemental damage mod is suicide), maybe you are one of those who just simply alch map and didn't read properly before you go in.

"

Also, if five points post 90 is breaking your build, it is not a very good build. Five more points can buy a small increase. Very small. Good builds hit the important nodes and utilize their cluster-jewels well before even 90.

^ EXACTLY! I bet those who complain don't even understand how defenses or damage mitigation work at all. Or they probably follow some really bad build guide that simply shows the pob of the final version of that build rather than understand the mechanics of the build and how to get there from 0. I know many players were introduced to poe.ninja and then just blindly follow the poe.ninja top build (those are crazy people, you as casual player who dont have enough understanding of the game not to mention some of you dont have much time to play decided to follow them? Come on..)

"

Time and how its spent is subjective. You can try to optimize your playtime based on whatever metric you want. That doesn't mean it will be the best, or even jive with the game as it exists. I have two characters logged in to sell things, and I post here, for example - and I find that an efficient use of my time. Some folks would have a fit over that. I shrug and do as I wish.

From what I see there are so many builds out there. If you have limited time, choose a cheap build, understand how exactly things worked, not blindly play and when things not working well blamed everything like a kids.

"

Also, note that not every player can invest a ton of time into playing games, a league is roughly 3-4 months long, where the majority of "action" is only in the first month. -> After that time, items are getting scarce and prices skyrocket because of fewer people playing (less supply).
-> This means those people have to even play longer to get the currency to buy the items they need, with a chance it not being available anymore by the time they "farmed" the currency.

Currency is not hard to farm. Even with limited amount of playtime, you definitely can finish a cheap build with few Exalts. (not up to min-maxing or course, but should be enough for you to kill Sirus A8 at least). The fact that you felt this is because you have no understanding of how to get those item and you totally rely on getting them through trades. If the item do drop from high end boss which you have no access to, then learning how to get currency is crucial. There are many guide out there teaching you this and all I can say that you gonna need to understand all build well to be efficient on this since you need to be able to identify the rares that people wants.

For the part you said price skyrocketted? Well Like I say, if you already doesnt have much time to play choose a cheap build. You want play expensive build then complain no time to farm and item expensive? Come on you need a slap on your own face.

"

Sabranic_SilverDeth wrote:

You're entitled to your opinions on how things feel and such. But not everyone is supposed to hit that magical 100 number. Much like the end-game content - this field is intentionally restricted. There are ways you can make that easier - ROTAS, tanky builds, playing in good groups, ect. I suggest you examine those options.

As to why most people don't reach very high levels? That's more factors than we can cover here. But, frankly, I don't see that as a bad thing.

Also, if five points post 90 is breaking your build, it is not a very good build. Five more points can buy a small increase. Very small. Good builds hit the important nodes and utilize their cluster-jewels well before even 90.

If those last five points are anything other than fluff, something is really wrong with your character's tree.

Time and how its spent is subjective. You can try to optimize your playtime based on whatever metric you want. That doesn't mean it will be the best, or even jive with the game as it exists. I have two characters logged in to sell things, and I post here, for example - and I find that an efficient use of my time. Some folks would have a fit over that. I shrug and do as I wish.

ROTA's should give negative XP it's BS, and only benefits the likes that scream 100 is not for everyone.

5 Points matter alot more then they used to, nothing to do with breaking, it's just the difference between smooth and very smooth, it's min-maing, without paying mirrors, not everyone likes to scam,trade, run ur beloved ROTO's or sell all other shit that people cannot run themselves not even to speak of the numerous RTM shit in this game. I never forgot that one time i joined a guild and the first thing i heard on their discord was, i am to elite to farm that shit of course i RTM.. Yes i was gone quickly, calling urself elite and then RTM, wtf..

And god do i hate those people with multiple account logged in to sell things, making me wait a few min, or joining the one who offered me the trade while there active account is going to do the trade. Efficient for you very inefficient for me.

Posts against XP loss are probably the most posted topic in the forum.

It comes up regularly and as always the majority of people believe it either needs to go or be changed with a minority saying it should stay the same.

Fact is that nobody is listening to any of this, the forum discussions are pointless. If something annoys you that much just quit playing and go elsewhere. It was what I did and I had a blast.

My play time on POE has reduced significantly, I think the player base is in decline and QoL things like this just put people off. Better ways to make death meaningful.

An extra idea (sorry if it has been mentioned before, I didn't read all 10 pages): someone mentioned the Diablo II style of picking up the corpse to restore XP wouldn't be doable because in Diablo II your equipment stays with the corpse, and in PoE you can't fight without your gear because your skills are in it.

But there are different modes of the "recover your corpse" idea - for example, in Dark Souls, you get to keep your gear, and there's only a fictional "corpse" for you to collect to restore lost souls (i.e. XP).

So how about this: after you die, a "corpse" spawns where you died. You have a fixed amount of time to recover the corpse. The time could be, say, 1-2 mins - not shorter so people with slow connections wouldn't be discriminated against due to loading times, but not much longer so it wouldn't be too easy. If you recover the corpse, you restore the lost XP (or half of it if GGG insists that some penalty must exist). If you don't, or it was the last portal to a map and you can't go back, well, no restoration, but you don't lose equipment and stuff.

What do you think?






Alternatively: pay X Chaos Orbs (where X equals your level) to restore lost XP. :)





OR: a new form of currency (Orb of Memory, or whatever) that is put in the map device / used on the map to make you not lose XP if you die in it. Used in advance, as a failsafe (so, if you put it and didn't die, you essentially wasted it, but it was insurance), and not too frequent a thing, so you can't just slam them on every map you play, but save them for the really risky ones.

"

Ora9 wrote:

But there are different modes of the "recover your corpse" idea - for example, in Dark Souls, you get to keep your gear, and there's only a fictional "corpse" for you to collect to restore lost souls (i.e. XP).

DS respawns all mobs in the entire instance, so there is actually some challenge to get to the corpse. That doesnt happen in PoE for a good reason, so thats basically just a meaningless walk to your corpse and all you lost is a portal.

IF all were mobs respawned, Id just wait for a lvlup, die to the final mob and clear a superjuiced map 6 times for the investment of single map.
That would be way more broken than fractured maps ever were.


I like the idea of charging chaos per lvl, but I assume that would cause even more outrage than the current penalty because the rich wouldnt care and the poor would suffer.

Besides: Pretty much all of this has been debated several times over the years and to this point no one was able to come up with a meaningful penalty to replace the current one.
Meaningful means it should hurt, so you are motivated to either improve your build or avoid running content your build or you as player cant handle.

Good luck coming up with something better than the current penalty ;)