Because of arrogance, GGG is running the road to the end
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It's funny how many people who say they're done with and are walking away from the game don't just, you know, walk away? Instead they keep repeating the same things in the forums endlessly.
Last edited by Exile009#1139 on Aug 22, 2021, 7:54:20 AM
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" Yeah,ONCE. Do you really suggest that in order to get an Essence-Mod and 4-5 more highly desireable mods you are supposed to only use 1 single Essence? Try to imagine how that devalues the market for Essences please. "There are no fossil-only mods in this game anymore. "Veiled mods are added via aisling afterwards, Incursion mods could be an argument, and then I just refer to the Essence Point. It devalues the base items so hard, you only need it ONCE. By the way, mentioning fossil-only mods etc. shows that you don't really understand modern crafting, just saying... "see above, there is no fossil-only mod on my claws. " I would just refer you to what kuciol said - they augmented crafting and introduced new possibilities, not made them completely useless (aside from a once-used-situation with your essence-argument). "thank you for actually making my point. Making currency elsewhere just to come back to harvesr because there was no way around it, literally my point. "no, it was a harvest problem as there was a simple superiority from harvest over other mechanics, currency wise as well. And why was it worth so much in terms of moneymaking? Because there was an insane, unbalanced demand because it was the best method to produce items. It all comes down to that and you just seem to not want to acknowledge that for some reason. To say that "well then kick harvest off the atlas" literally proves my point: If a mechanic is so strong that you need to kill it from the atlas-passives just to open room for other mechanics shows only one thing: that this mechanic is/was overtuned. "said it a few times now - because it devalued everything else. "and those totem-builds die if an enemy looks at them while I was able to facetank rare corrupted hidden encounters with 4 Breachlords. There surely is more damage to get, but let me tell you... Ill take 50mio dps with immortal defenses over 400mil glasscanon all day. Last edited by Vennto#1610 on Aug 22, 2021, 10:11:18 AM
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" So, we should stick to essence-scour ad infinitum to get a fossil-modded item? And no progress can be ever made because that is the perfect system that cannot ever possibly be improved? " The claw has 60 % chance for poisons inflicted with this weapon to deal 100 % more damage, which was a fossils-only mod, and isn't in the game anymore since fossils-only mods got removed. " If the essence is cheap, it's worth rolling essence-scour repeatedly to get as clean item as possible or, at the very least, until one succeeds cleaning it with annuls. And about the augmenting, Harvest literally does that - start with essence/fossils, finish with harvest is augmentative, not replacing. Also, how do fossils augment essences? " And without harvest, it's making currency just to buy an item from whatever the newest crafting method is. Harvest changed absolutely nothing about that, except that it made crafting accessible to players who never crafted before. " There will always be something superior with atlas passives - there is no way all regions can be balanced. There will always be a superior one if one focuses solely on maximizing per-map profitability. And, again, it's nothing new - there was a time of spamming strand, then there was elder-blocking on atlas, and many more. It wasn't ever really a problem before, so why would it be a problem with harvest? And finally, perhaps it was overtuned, fine, it really couldn't have been nerfed in a way that kept it relevant to everyone outside the most hardcore crowd, which still trades it via TFT, rather than it being completely gutted? " So, nothing can ever change? Because things have been getting devalued all the time - chaos spamming got heavily devalued by essences, essences got devalued by delve, delve got devalued by GGG putting fossils as rewards to new content like Heist...etc That is something that has been happening over time, and it's what has been keeping the game fresh. " The bosses don't get to do much looking when they instantly jump from one invincibility phase to another. And, again, why is it a problem? Why shouldn't you be able to spend a ton of effort (which getting godly gear from harvest required) to make an extremely powerful character, when it gets wiped for the next season anyway? This last question is the most important in this, one I really with I got answered by anyone. Because this comes up all the time "you shouldn't be able to make a godly character" - why not? Because you could do a lot of that in the past - back in the day, indigon poet's pen could do twinned uber elder (through prophecy back then) with eyes closed because it practically couldn't die in the fight; facebreaker cyclone used to erase all content at ~30c budget, and so did many minion builds back when the minions got buffed (blight)? And all these builds needed were a few specific uniques and some okay-rolled rare items to have some ES/life and capped resists. But now, when it would require a hundred times more effort via harvest, it's gamebreaking and cannot be allowed to exist? That makes absolutely no sense. Last edited by Xyel#0284 on Aug 22, 2021, 11:18:48 AM
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" And will happen again... NOW! why? because we are here taking a look what GGG do and what the community thinks about the changes. OP & others) Anyway, people, is not a big deal, just play another game, POE can be perfectly that game with maximum 38k people on steam, probable still the most played ARPG anyway. I dont like the changes too, like lots of people here but... POE never was a game for everyone, never was a casual game, and probable the last year they "casualized" and noticed that was too far, maybe they(GGG) played some D2R beta and they remember why they did POE, if I can chose for me will be much better if they make the game like 3.13 and who want d2 like go to play D2, but, is not my game, its a fact, this game is not for us anymore and is for that people who is happy with the current changes. Is sad, I know, and I can feel like used for a temporary revenue increase, we cant force GGG to do the stuff like we want and call them "arrogant", is their game after all the money we donated is their money now and their business, their life... Just imagine being you, im doing a game with a friend and I will feel very unhappy if 100k people come and tell me to radically change my game to their taste totally opposite to my dream. I dont want others to convince to do my way but... I understand now is much better be always on positive, when I liked the game I supported, its ok to say "i dont like that anymore" but stay positive and look for something that YOU like and is worth it from YOUR point of view to support. And talking about support the game you like, I hope who is happy with the current changes are giving lots of money to GGG, because NOW is the moment, if they dont do is probable that some "not desired stuff" return (I still remember when people said before Heist "Harvest will never be core" hehe). Full Harvest is besto waifu, give me 3.11 and/or 3.13 and take my money. Last edited by Narszosh7#0758 on Aug 22, 2021, 11:22:20 AM
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" No, not at all. But with current harvest we have exactly that sort of cool system. You need more than one Essence to get another 1 great and maybe 1 more useful mod. Then you can try to - anull trash off of it - split it for 2 top-tier mods - beastcraft it with add/remove prefix/suffix - fracture it - use harvest to reforge it - use harvest to just change prefix/suffix - metacraft it - safe certain affixes and aisling it So right now we have a ton of stuff in place to work off of good bases that also took quite a bunch of essences, so all of the systems have value in the current state of crafting. Before u rolled once, isolated the desired essence-mod and started the item-editor that was harvest. The current harvest does a way better job in joining all given crafting-systems to use them all in conjunction for the best results. You saying we just essence-spam and do nothing else instead proves my aforementioned point about your knowledge about current crafting. " Ages ago this was a fossil-mod. You probably missed 3-4 leagues, because as long as I have been playing this was an elder-influence prefix, not bound to fossils at all until it got removed/replaced just last league. Once again... sorry to inform you that you are not up to date. "The difference, once more, is that harvest replaced all the other ways that I mentioned earlier, look above. Once you had a clean item you just started to remove-augment until you got 6x T1. "That is indeed correct. Though that ultimately leads to the question what GGG wants for the game and what the players expect. As mentioned before, I am not playing for ages, I am kinda new myself and figured out crafting in roughly 2 leagues. If you wanna be casual - fine, wheres the problem, stick with current harvest, benchcrafting and you should be fine. If you want better items than you can produce yourself, buy them. If you EXPECT to produce them yourself, maybe you need to put in the work to actually learn how to do it. I don´t think the answer is it to make everything so simple so people can just get OP-items for free. I basically understand the frustration of something being taken away that felt powerful. What I don´t understand is the complete refusal to improve on game-knowledge. Especially taking into consideration how softcore trade works - you actually NEED a bunch of the so-called 1%ers to fill the market with items, and you need more casual people that sell crafting-material, mapping-material etc. so those top-players bring those items in the market. Thats why the current state in terms of economy is more healthy (strictly talking harvest here, not what happened to ultra-endgame in terms of availability and ordeal). " Because the "not so optimal" stuff at least held value compared to the top-option. Again, seeing the bigger picture: If everything starts farming legion, then breachstones get expensive, so people will start farming that to fulfil the demand because the supply is not there. The market will balance itself out. As long as harvest was the top-tier to produce anything there was NO REASON WHATSOEVER to farm anything else. You want to buy breachstones? Run harvest, cause 1 single augment gets you 4 stones. The economy was completely based on harvest, and did not incorporate it. Look at this league (and bear in mind again: its about harvest, this leagues economy is also pretty trash, but for other reasons): You can farm logbooks, you can still sell harvest, you can speed maps and sell logbooks, you have still betrayal, you still have legion, you can farm nemesis, you can boss as before... plenty of options, way more chances to pick content you like opposed to having to run harvest. "I don´t like that it is traded via TFT. Chris Wilson gave a pretty understandeable answer to that, why that is. And its not THAT complicated to install that if you are interested in selling it. In regards to "nerfed in a way that kept it relevant"... I think I have to repeat myself, they literally did that. It is highly relevant, as its still the single most powerful crafting in the game. If no one sees it like that - yeah, too bad, git gud. "things absolutely can change, but they should change for the better. " You behave like this is not possible anymore :D My league-character farms nemesis 3 t16 double or sometimes even triple beyond maps with HH in like 5 min clean, killed all the endgame encounters... That is powerful enough, isnt it? And in regards to "more" power, simple answer: It should not be possible to exceed a certain level of power so you have to interact with the bosses you are trying to fight. That means, from a personal standpoint, I would like the game to have meaningful ways to mitigate incoming damage and that movement, knowledge and timings also matter in fights so that boss-encounters are difficult with a clear learning-curve. And I have absolutely no problem admitting that they failed doing that on the multi-maven-invitations, that actually are more of a gear-check than a klowledge-check. But that would be my ideal vision of endgame encounters, therefore I dont feel you should be able to delete bosses 100-0. Last edited by Vennto#1610 on Aug 22, 2021, 12:02:44 PM
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" And this is the root of our disagreement - at your invested playtime, Harvest is still relevant, so its current state is fine. At my possible time investment, it might as well be removed from the game as the relevant crafts are so rare I found precisely zero of them on my way to 24 challenges in this league. Perhaps I would have found more had I pushed for 36 challenges, but I'm not sure I would. And the current ways of crafting require so much time investment in the form of getting currency for it that it's again, practically unavailable for me. Hence, the game lost a lot of its entertainment value with nothing given back. Finally, on a pedantic side note, this isn't "git gud" issue, but "stop being a filthy casual" one. " Well, that's not even close, but anyway, this is exactly my point - you could trivialize the game long before harvest, you can do it now. Therefore, it's not harvest's fault. I don't see how more clearly I can say that because we still keep missing each other on this point. | |
" Okay, got it. Then let me ask you this: Why do you need to be done with the league already? We are 3 weeks in. It gives you 3 months, which you mentioned several times. Why can´t u just keep playing the league, why do you expect yourself - as someone with lets just say for the sake of it less time invested, while ignoring things like effectiveness - to finish the league as fast as the top 1%? Yes, the root of our disagreement is surely partly about time-investment. But I wonder why the "casual" players never ever take another position than their own. If GGG gives everything you and many other asks to make it so easy for casuals to cruise through the endgame, do you honestly think there is enough actual endgame left that is challenging? I don´t think so. So we have 2 options: 1) dissatisfy the hardcore gamers and no-lifers, that don´t feel there is anything left to do in this game 2) dissatisfy the casuals, that feel left out, left behind and cant find a way to progress. I think, GGG did both of that, thats why the player-rates are at an all-time low. But the root of this problem will always exist and it will - or so I hope - tend to the latter, as it has always been, from my understanding, a game for the more invested players. And a simple solution to that is: Lower your expectations as a more casual-oriented player, use the actual 3 months of a league instead of trying to keep up with the pro-base and finish it in 2 weeks and you´ll be fine edit: And one last note about the "relevant" crafting mods on harvest. I haven´t found any augment, nor any non-X to X for that matter. But even the most basic crafts of harvest are very powerful, and those were the ones I was actually referring to. Augments are so damn rare that I would be selling them in any situation anyway. So I am pretty sure you found a lot of the crafts that I am actually using to produce good items. Last edited by Vennto#1610 on Aug 22, 2021, 2:21:39 PM
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" I think it is better for GGG to implement weekly lockouts for bosses and maven invitations. Instead of relying on player expectations, force elites and casuals to play the full 3 months. A single feature that would be solve ALL balance problems AND be easy to implement is time gating bosses. Everyone can be a god--immortal and 500 million dps. It won't matter when you can only kill bosses once a week and then you are locked out. It fits in with GGG's vision because it will definitely slow player progression. I see artificial time gating at the bottom of the slippery nerf slope. Other game companies have been doing it for years. No one will ever be able to say that they finished the league in 2 weeks. That will make GGG happy. Gutting Gameplay Gradually Last edited by zakalwe55#2432 on Aug 22, 2021, 2:53:06 PM
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" Mostly because the 36 challenges reward portal doesn't fit my hideout style, partly because I've got a lot of other games to play and without the 36 challenge carrot being worth the effort, I lack the motivation. I'm not competing with or trying to keep up with anyone, but I've got very limited free time, so the more efficient I am, the more fun I get out of it. Funnily enough, that actually looks the same from the outside :D " The reason I started and participate in this entire discussion is because I identified you as a top 1%-er, and wanted to learn what your position is and why. And no, I don't think there's enough challenging endgame left, and even if I would have probably never really done it, it's a problem because I'm well aware that the hardcore gamers are the ones whose items I'm buying through trade, who keep basic currencies cheap and accessible, and who make my lucky drop valuable. " I'm fine even now, but I'm also not sure I qualify so much as a casual. I never expected to do endgame content, never even did all of the true endgame like fracturing maps, but I know that I need it in the game because of what I mentioned earlier. What the problem I actually have with the current patch is that it feels like a gutted version of the Ritual. There's nothing new save for the league mechanic, which is fun, but at the end of the day, logbooks are just another type of a map. But there are many things that got gutted/removed from being accessible/useable by me, especially the hit to general build viability really hasn't helped. And btw, I use all harvest crafts I find, but how the enhanced rerolls need so much rng to get something decent, in the amount that I get to do it, I get nothing of value. Last edited by Xyel#0284 on Aug 22, 2021, 4:16:21 PM
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" This is the phisolophy that literally destroyed World of Warcraft, so no, that would be horrible. |
