Because of arrogance, GGG is running the road to the end

"

Vennto wrote:

No, it wasn´t. Abusive systems like harvest and fractured-map-farming as well as beast-duping had to go.

Then why was Ritual the only league where you had 40/40?

This isn't an ironic question - I am genuinely curious about the answer because on the one hand, you clearly played more in Ritual, the league where the named systems were in their ultimate forms and access, than in any other league, and this line directly contradicts that.

this is similar to many other games that corporations have taken over and bought it starts like this
decisions that 80% of players don't like, dislike and complain about
and the game developers are not listening and are still making their stupid changes
then everybody stops play the game

Honestly surprised with the outrage within the first week they didn't revert a lot of the nerfs in the first week, would think a smart decision would be to revert changes as soon as possible and then release the "Hard mode" on the side to see if people were going to enjoy it. Seems people really aren't using there brains anymore lol. To much time on the PC it seems.

Have tried to enjoy the league as much as Possible, even went as far as farming my first Headhunter, which is a grind I don't think I'll ever have the patients for again. With all the massive gaps to trying to get builds working now and then the insane amount of things that can instantly kill you for no reason apart from "Games Hard get good" kinda kills the enjoyment of a video game.

Think for me the worse part is coming into the game with a bunch of friends that were playing before hand and them leaving because of tedious gameplay made in the last 2 Leagues.

A friend of mine that is actually really good at this game told me "You missed out on true progression in PoE" which I didn't really understand until I made it to end game and realized upgrading my gear ment RNG Spamming Currency, which just doesn't suit me. Don't really like the feeling of Wasting currency for a maybe it hits or maybe you go broke.

"

Cosmonaut111 wrote:

Can we just ignore those reddit bot whine threads? They pop up every 5-10min and all are the same. This league 5 more friends jumped into the game ( i normally play duo ) and all of us are having a blast. For me this seems to be the best league , if you perceive is as the worst please drop the game and never come back because it clearly isnt.

You're last sentence is a bit odd. It's great you are enjoying the league, but please don't act like people that are not enjoying the league are strange, wrong, in the minority etc. The retention metrics are terrible this league, so it clearly isn't 'the best'. It can be your, and your friends favourite, but it doesn't make it 'the best'.

"

Xyel wrote:

"

Vennto wrote:

No, it wasn´t. Abusive systems like harvest and fractured-map-farming as well as beast-duping had to go.

Then why was Ritual the only league where you had 40/40?

This isn't an ironic question - I am genuinely curious about the answer because on the one hand, you clearly played more in Ritual, the league where the named systems were in their ultimate forms and access, than in any other league, and this line directly contradicts that.

No problem, perfectly good question and easily explained:

First of all, I did not play more in Ritual than in other leagues. In fact, the league where I played most was Harvest, as I loved the league mechanic. Loving it personally does not contradict my opinion that it was too strong though - especially since I used it extensively I know exactly how utterly broken and unhealthy for the game it is.

In terms of the challenges: Rituals challenges were just easier. I always shoot for 36 (since I learned the game, I started very late metamorph so metamorph and delirium I was new and didn't make 36) and in Ritual the challenges were easier overall so I just finished them for the sake of the totem. Since Ritual the endgame challenges got exceedingly harder and so I ended up Ultimatum on 36 and will end up this league on 36 as well as usual.

And as a last point: In Ritual I was in between jobs so I just had more time on my hands to actually play, and I still played more in Harvest (based on gut feeling).

Thank you for the great answer!

"

Vennto wrote:

especially since I used it extensively I know exactly how utterly broken and unhealthy for the game it is.

In which way is it unhealthy?

I mean, Ritual was the most played league in the history of PoE by quite a margin, so it clearly isn't unhealthy in the way that people wouldn't enjoy the game containing it...

"

Xyel wrote:

Thank you for the great answer!

"

Vennto wrote:

especially since I used it extensively I know exactly how utterly broken and unhealthy for the game it is.

In which way is it unhealthy?

I mean, Ritual was the most played league in the history of PoE by quite a margin, so it clearly isn't unhealthy in the way that people wouldn't enjoy the game containing it...

Unhealthy in terms of the crafting-process up to that point, as Harvest made any other way of producing items neglectable.

I know that crafting for many people is very complex, and it is. But there is a very obvious learning curve from starting your very first things like learning what affixes are, adding bench-crafts to multimods up to double-influencing and combining different approaches.
Here are all the crafting-methods u can utilize:

1) Orbs, classic chaos- or altspamming
2) Fossils
3) Beastcrafting, adding/removing prefixes/suffixes, imprinting
4) Essences
5) Adding Veiled Mods
6) Fracturing
7) Reforging via Harvest
8) Rerolling suffixes/Prefixes via Harvest
9) More likely/less likely probabilistic changes via Harvest
10) Influence-Exalting

If I haven´t missed any here, then we have 10 different things that all tie into each other when trying to produce a good item. And here is where the 3.13/3.14 Harvest is unhealthy: It basically renders all of those things completely redundant and useless, as Harvest at full power made everything I just listed easier, cheaper, more available and even possible, when in fact top tier items are now very hard to craft.

Is it possible to still craft very strong items? Yeah, of course - just to show some:


All self-crafted, all without harvest at full power. All with a combination of Fossils, Essences, Aisling, Harvest and Beast-imprinting.

I am not saying people did not enjoy harvest. But the items it produced where too strong from the game-design philosophy from GGG, and they made everything else useless. For me this game thrives on the ability to alter and focus on content you like, especially since the wideley well-received 3.13 atlas update. People always divert to the best options, in terms of builds as well as item-generation and as long as harvest was like that there was nothing else even remotely worthwhile doing aside from running harvest 24/7. That pidgeonholds people in one league-mechanic with one or two atlas-regions, making the entire game very narrow-minded. So from that perspective, Harvest had to go.

Just to inform u from a crafters perspective: Harvest is still the most powerful crafting method this game has to offer, people that don´t understand crafting really underestimate how strong it really is. But now you at least have some leighway to focus on other things without the feeling of missing out.

And just for the sake of comparison: Take a look at the items I produced without Harvest, and check out those I produced with it:

You can´t tell me that a single character in a single league is supposed to be equipped like that. It made the game a total joke, I had like 48mio Sirus DPS with 100% uptime (Dot) while maintaining 2.2million elemental effective HP.

"

IcedInferno007 wrote:

I quit a week or 2 into the league. I disliked the feel of slower gameplay, and at least partially thanks to yet more insane numbers of splinters from a new league mechanic, I've developed RSI, it came along really suddenly.

Quitting the game has been such a breath of fresh air. I now play other games, from other genre's (and last epoch from the same genre), and I couldn't be happier. It made me realise other games are now more fun to me, and far more respectful of my time to feel like I am progressing, and much nicer on my wrists, which are already starting to feel better.

I'm not salty, not raging, I've loved POE, but Chris is pulling it in a direction I am not supportive of, and that's fine. There are plenty of other games that are more to my taste still. Many are not happy with their direction either, but they continue playing POE trying to make themselves like it. All that happens is they get angry and rage. For those people, I'd recommend they just take a couple of months off till the next league, play other games, go outside more, whatever makes them happy.

I'm just glad not to be getting frustrated by rng, on top of rng, on top of gambling, on top of rng!

If you enjoy the game, awesome, keep playing it because at its core its a great game. If you're not enjoying it any more, take a break, and if you still don't enjoy it after a break, then maybe call it a day.

Peace.

This. And alot.

One of the most healthy comments I saw here in forums. Cheers!

"

Vennto wrote:

Unhealthy in terms of the crafting-process up to that point, as Harvest made any other way of producing items neglectable.

I know that crafting for many people is very complex, and it is. But there is a very obvious learning curve from starting your very first things like learning what affixes are, adding bench-crafts to multimods up to double-influencing and combining different approaches.
Here are all the crafting-methods u can utilize:

1) Orbs, classic chaos- or altspamming
2) Fossils
3) Beastcrafting, adding/removing prefixes/suffixes, imprinting
4) Essences
5) Adding Veiled Mods
6) Fracturing
7) Reforging via Harvest
8) Rerolling suffixes/Prefixes via Harvest
9) More likely/less likely probabilistic changes via Harvest
10) Influence-Exalting

If I haven´t missed any here, then we have 10 different things that all tie into each other when trying to produce a good item. And here is where the 3.13/3.14 Harvest is unhealthy: It basically renders all of those things completely redundant and useless, as Harvest at full power made everything I just listed easier, cheaper, more available and even possible, when in fact top tier items are now very hard to craft.

I am not saying people did not enjoy harvest. But the items it produced where too strong from the game-design philosophy from GGG, and they made everything else useless.

If you want an essence-only mod, you still had to start the craft with essence. Same for a fossils-only mod, same for veiled mods, so how did harvest make those useless?

In the linked items, you have a claw with a fossils-only modifier, so clearly fossils crafting wasn't irrelevant...

Also, all those named systems replaced some older crafting methods in the time of their introduction. And that was a good thing - would you want to play a game where the crafting methods never change?

New crafting methods coming in to (partially) push out old crafting methods isn't a problem, it's what makes a game interesting.

"

Vennto wrote:

For me this game thrives on the ability to alter and focus on content you like, especially since the wideley well-received 3.13 atlas update. People always divert to the best options, in terms of builds as well as item-generation and as long as harvest was like that there was nothing else even remotely worthwhile doing aside from running harvest 24/7. That pidgeonholds people in one league-mechanic with one or two atlas-regions, making the entire game very narrow-minded. So from that perspective, Harvest had to go.

Just to inform u from a crafters perspective: Harvest is still the most powerful crafting method this game has to offer, people that don´t understand crafting really underestimate how strong it really is. But now you at least have some leighway to focus on other things without the feeling of missing out.

And just for the sake of comparison: Take a look at the items I produced without Harvest, and check out those I produced with it:

You can´t tell me that a single character in a single league is supposed to be equipped like that. It made the game a total joke, I had like 48mio Sirus DPS with 100% uptime (Dot) while maintaining 2.2million elemental effective HP.

You can run any other content, generate currency, and then buy the harvest craft off the market.

As people have been doing with other crafting methods - the percentage of the playerbase that makes its own items in trade league is really, really tiny.

The pidgeonholding to two atlas regions wasn't a harvest problem, but an atlas passives problem - if there were no harvest-related passives on the atlas, all regions would be equal.

And why couldn't a character be equipped like that?

The league resets every 3 months, it takes a while to make the items, so why exactly is it a problem that someone can spend a ton of time over ~2 months to craft godly gear, when that gear becomes irrelevant a month later?

Also, this isn't a competitive game - that you have an op character has no influence on other players. That you (I mean an abstract you, not you in particular) have uber-overpowered character has no effect on other players. They don't even have a way to know that without searching for it, and the game doesn't become any better or worse for them.

So, why is it a problem?

And about damage, forbidden rite totems in 3.15 reach up to ~400 mil dps, so that really isn't as much about harvest as about skill balance.

"

Xyel wrote:

To much to quote

Previous leagues didnt invalidate other methods, they agumented them. Harvest was so much above anything else that it made it stupid to not run it. TFT is not an answer, services like that are not supported by GGG and never will. Thats stupid to even sugest it as alternative. Harvest alone invalidated 80% of game, it ruined any design space devs could hope for. With items such as those generated by harvest any other method of getting them was simply stupid. You were forced to do harvests, dont even pretend like it wasnt the case. Perfect items should be something you strive for but never get, they are ultimate chase items. Harvest should have never been a thing.