The REAL Truth about NERFS and what it really means in game <- Warning! Factual Content!

Many builds are next to untouched, but what about triggered builds? CoC, CWC, Cospri's, trigger wands, spellslinger, etc.

Or build that already required stretching the passive tree to its limits, squeezing out every point to make a unique mechanic or ability work? Some don't have the spare room to invest in more ailment avoidance/immunities, flask nodes, mana regen, mobility.

Tons of builds still work, if you want to do the content easily its very possible. If all you see the game as is a puzzle to be solved.

But build diversity took a nosedive, there isn't anything interesting about meeting 4-6 new arbitrary checkmarks for a build to reach a point where it feels good. Getting stun locked or freeze chained isn't interesting gameplay, and there isn't anything fun about sacrificing x gear slots or passive points to make you immune to them.

Maybe if there was gameplay tied to these mechanics, less enemy spam and more attacks and hazards that can be dodged with awareness and skill. Then gearing to skip them actually has some impact beyond "Oh good, I'm not randomly dying now". Or if they built more utility into active defense skills to make them feel better to use and build around.

Outside of boss fights, How many attacks weren't you dodging before that you have to now? Oriath artillary ghosts? Volatiles? Moving away from porcupine packs? I can't think of many monsters we've ever had to care about. Combat is way too passive and this just highlights that problem more. Not to mention the screen clutter that makes adding these things without rebalancing monster density next to impossible.

There is little in the way of fun difficulty outside of boss encounters because it's all passive gear and talent checks. Doubling down on this just makes a bunch of fun and interesting off-meta builds non-viable and pushes people to play the things that were nerfed the least.

I wouldn't care nearly as much about the nerfs if there was something worth fighting through them for. The fact is this endgame is 99% similar to Ultimatums endgame, only things are objectively slower. And Ultimatums endgame was identical to Rituals endgame, only objectively less rewarding.

So we're supposed to use weaker tools to solve more difficult problems (less possible solutions) for largely similar but worse rewards? It doesn't take a genius to see why so many player are choosing to swap to other games for now. No disrespect to anyone who is enjoying the league, but there's plenty of reasons for players to feel justifiably upset.

Damage nerfs are good for the long term health of the game, mana regen, ailments, and mobility are more questionable. And GGG have obviously seen this themselves as they're walking back some of the nerfs to cost multipliers and flasks.

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frenrihr wrote:

This guy talking about logic and first makes a hasty generalization fallacy and follows that up with a false equivalence fallacy and I only read just the start, I can just imagine how much more fallacius ramblings are there in all that rant.

No that guy was talking issues and giving his opinion about issues. He was basically saying that the issue is not really that people can't make their character work. Instead the game is just not very much fun to play after the changes. What do you think is false about his statement? Where is the false equivalence fallacy?

On the other hand, it seems that you're post is really just focused on making a personal attack.

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jerot wrote:

I wouldn't care nearly as much about the nerfs if there was something worth fighting through them for. The fact is this endgame is 99% similar to Ultimatums endgame, only things are objectively slower. And Ultimatums endgame was identical to Rituals endgame, only objectively less rewarding.

So we're supposed to use weaker tools to solve more difficult problems (less possible solutions) for largely similar but worse rewards? It doesn't take a genius to see why so many player are choosing to swap to other games for now. No disrespect to anyone who is enjoying the league, but there's plenty of reasons for players to feel justifiably upset.

Same sentiment regarding all these changes. The nerfs are fine, making the game slower is fine if that's what the devs want in their game but what about the reward & goals at the end we want for doing this?

It's like in the Cycling race, they gave us a new bike but slower, a new drinking bottle but smaller to try the same race in a different experience & challenge. But it has the same finish line & trophies that we already got race after race in the past. The excitement from the new experience from the new bike & gears can only get us far until that novelty wears out, & it will wear out easily since it's a worse experience than before. And when that novelty wears out easily while in the middle of the cycling race, there's not much else to motivate us to continue.

That's why I also understand why there are many people skipping or early quitting the league, they have reason to do so or don't have reason to start to.

I myself will just try this new slower bike & clunky drinking bottle until that novelty wears out & quit the race. There's not much motivation for me to continue it until the finish line. I have been there done that, what will be the point in the end?

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Phrazz wrote:

I think it's pretty clear that people are vastly overestemating the nerfs. Sure, 1 second immunity on flask was too low, and is being changed and the mana multipliers made certain builds more or less unplayable, so they are changing that too.

Other than that? The patch is fine, the game is fine - and not much has changed. I can only speak for myself, and I'm having way more fun than I've had for a very long time.

I'm not going to ask people to just "stop playing", that's totally their choice. But if people haven't been able to settle on the fact that PoE is a progressive game and will always change, I struggle to see what they are doing here. As others have said before me: PoE is a problem solving game. We got a bunch of new problems to solve this league - have at it. What's the fun of doing the exact same thing over and over?

It's nice that you're having fun, not every league is for everybody!

Some people may "overestimate" the nerfs, but the core problem i see is very bad contradictions in game design, that became even more aparrent in this league.

- Trying to slow the game down while leaving all mechanics unchanged that require a speed meta.

- Making curses and ailments imporant to counter (which they were already before) without adressing those debuffs to be reapplied and stacked again instantly. As a bonus, going for less curse effect and ailment avoidance in skill tree takes away damage and defences that are needed elsewhere on the tree.

- Expecting players to invest even more time into short-time leagues by reducing rewards, therefor making the gameplay loop feel worse for more people.

- Trying to reduce the gap between casuals and top-tier players by reducing the only power thats accessible to ALL players, while keeping ascendancy-like mods on items that are only available to said top-tier players.

- Making the world feel more "dangerous" by gutting defences and doing nothing to adress oneshot deaths.

- Reducing availability (charges) and power of flasks while making them even more mandatory.

- Increasing build variety by destroying certain builds and forcing casual players to follow meta builds even more.

- Trying to increase game difficulty be increasing act 1 enemy health by 46% and returning to old values by act 10, when 99% of the game happens AFTER the campaign.


Im sure there's more that i can't think of off the top of my head, but to me this design is a mess.

I'm all for reducing power creep, but it has to be done right.
And to me it feels like noone playtested anything important before releasing the league.

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Marthuk wrote:

I'm all for reducing power creep, but it has to be done right.
And to me it feels like noone playtested anything important before releasing the league.

Here, I agree. The mana multiplier and ailment immunities are proof of bad play testing this league.

And I also agree that there's more work to be done when it comes to slowing down the game. A LOT More work. More work than could possibly fit in one patch due to time constraint.

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DS_Deadman wrote:

They tried to do too much at once. The gem nerfs for the most part are not an issue. Maybe flasks -OR- mana changes would not have been a problem independently. However doing to major play style changes at once really caused a lot of chaos in the way people play the game. Then you get all the other crazy bugs that hit as well. It was a recipe for disaster.

You cannot have a long running game, that many have gotten used to a certain way to play, and then completely change that style completely at once. If you want to make these changes, you have to ease into them. Start with flasks, then slowly move to mana. Don't just throw up a middle finger to all the players. They would still be upset with the changes, but it would give time for everyone to get used to them and ease into them.

For me, being a casual most of the time, have not had issues this league outside of t-posing and invisible bosses. However that is more because I am playing a character that the mana changes effect much. The flasks do somewhat, but not horribly.

That said, I see why people are pissed. GGG didn't rip off a band aid, they ripped out stiches on a fresh wound.

Correct.

What's the author talking about? My builds have lost -50-80% damage...

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spokipo wrote:

What's the author talking about? My builds have lost -50-80% damage...

Then its time to make new builds maybe?

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Lordofthedreadz wrote:

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spokipo wrote:

What's the author talking about? My builds have lost -50-80% damage...

Then its time to make new builds maybe?

Which ones? 4 meta builds and the rest in the dumpster?

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Kiss_Me_Quick wrote:

I say that the nerfs have not halved the power on most builds if you know how to adjust your build.
The game seems harder now because what was old doesn't work anymore and you have to figure it all out again.

As an example you now have to find a solution to curses and you have to deal with all ailments.

- Ele weakness + Crit from a powerful rare = 2K health per second ignite means you're dead without a solution to it.

- You cannot piano flasks anymore.

- You have to dodge some abilities you didn't have to before.

I can understand the struggle though but I think it's simply a false perception of the reality due to comfort.

I did T16 Rare Corrupt already on day 2.
I know I will still be able to do T16 100% Delirious on my last league's build.

If you have a situation you can't solve, feel free to contact me and I'll help you out (:

you sure?




pathfinder ftw <3 ofc corrupted blood jewel in tree