Disappointment with 3.14 "Balance" & The Gaslighting of Anyone who Doesn't Agree with all Changes

"

zzang wrote:

"

LiMA6 wrote:

The two very mechanics the same supporters do not actively play (some admitted so at least, I profiled some to be sure). I can't imagine people who actively play deli/harvest actually say, ok its OP, nerf needed. It has to be those who avoid/not play them (I know why). Growth & Fun = Harvest + Deli + Fracture. Anti-growth = nerf QoL; rng-oriented; performance issues.

New content isn't even important. If they revert the controversial changes, and just make an ultimatum2 next league, with trialmaster allowed to appear more deterministically, the league will skyrocket in popularity.

You know i spoke to 2-3 people that disliked Harvest crafting in its pure form. [Removed by Support] e.g. they dont understand it and then automatically think its bad.

Turned put 1 out of the 3 was that kind of type.

The second one played the fuck out of Ritual League and no life Harvest crafted two builds of his (bad builds but still min max crafted) turned out he was the kind of person that dont want others to have what he have achieved during the league i dont know what word is fitting in english for that.

The third person had zero clue about good builds and crafting and wondered why his garbage gear with random rolls does not sell anymore during Ritual.

So far i havent met a single person with valid argents why pure Harvest was bad for the game. Im playing PoE since 2011 its been almost 10 years now and patch 3.13 was the time of my life crafting for the builds i wanted without referring to mirror services that only have 4 or 5 of the t1 mods i wanted.

Interestingly, I did ask casually ask my friends why the heck mirrors are worth what they are worth when people like me rather just craft them from scratch.

But then again, now having just mention it, with the old harvest, there were certain mods that are pretty impossible to hit alongside the desired mods, and these are multi-mirror worthy. I'm talking about those that don't actually have a tag. So is harvest that OP? Relative to chaos spam yes, but there are many things very difficult to hit still. If you wanna hit many t1 mods, you know some of them can take days to craft still. Do that for your entire character and you'd be 2 months into the league already. Right now, people rather not even max out their character within the first 4 weeks and just call it quits.

Also, i so happen to read replies made by other members before they were deleted. I will complain to higher ups in GGG about posts being deleted needlessly -- I am ok with people speaking against me. Now, not to escalate, there are posts where the sentiment isn't really a discussion/expressing opinions but merely assertions. Like fracture OP nerfs don't involve them as they don't play them, so why the desire to make life harder for people who play them?, especially when the real issue is the cumbersome nature of not using fractured fossils to accomplish the same thing.

The fact is that there are many upset players right now, those who have played this game for nearly a decade voicing themselves does indicate there's something inherently wrong with the game's present state. Now, there will always be supporters no matter how ugly things are, and radical or not. I accept that. So when salt's taken away from your favorite steak, people are bound to complain but what I cannot comprehend is, for those who never order steak, why are you saying it should remain saltless, good change? It's been a recurring theme in recent times.

I screenshot/save all my long posts before posting now. I shall inform Tencent on how things are.

"

Clownkrieger wrote:

Its heavily RNG based crafting, no discussion about that.

But trans/alt/aug/annul till i have 2 desired mods, then imprinting, then regaling, maybe getting lucky, maybe more beastcraftng, maybe getting lucky, maybe returning to the step before, then benchcrafting/whatever the result you finally get... i call that crafting, called that crafting, and still will call that crafting in the years to come :)

When you try doing too much of RNG-crafting for too long, people get worn out and bored, which is part of the reason why people feel it feels unrewarding to play, the state we are in today.

btw @OP: i can just see one person "gaslighting" (actually had to look that up) here, and its definetly not one who agrees with the changes... xD

lol you shouldn't let strangers on an internet forum 'gaslight' you. However if by gaslighting you simply mean disagreement (either polite or not so polite), then that's just silly - they're free to express their opinions same as you.

Btw skimming through your post (which is unnecessarily lengthy imo) you also throw around phrases like 'elite-minded' and 'docile political sheep'. So you're doing the same thing that you're accusing others of - which is attacking them for their opinion that's different from yours.

"

stalkingjackal wrote:

lol you shouldn't let strangers on an internet forum 'gaslight' you. However if by gaslighting you simply mean disagreement (either polite or not so polite), then that's just silly - they're free to express their opinions same as you.

Explain how you're supposed to do that exactly? Next time when people say on the forums that they don't enjoy the game because what was fun for them was removed and someone jumps in says "no actually, you're definitely just burned out and everything is fine, you're the problem and the devs never make any mistakes", should I use telepathy and tell others on the internet to stop being passive-aggressive and using psychological manipulation? Because I don't see any moderators stopping them from doing so, it's apparently "just an opinion" when people try to forcefully convince you that what you genuinely think must be something else and is instead what they are telling you. Oh but obviously the sensible choice is ignoring all of it so that others can continue doing this to others who also disagree.

"

stalkingjackal wrote:

Btw skimming through your post (which is unnecessarily lengthy imo) you also throw around phrases like 'elite-minded' and 'docile political sheep'. So you're doing the same thing that you're accusing others of - which is attacking them for their opinion that's different from yours.

You're right, next time I'll just write "game is bad" for you. Maybe that's all that it takes for you to get the full picture of what I'm trying to say. You don't want people to go into detail about what's wrong with the game anyway, because it just points everything out and why do that when you can live under the guise that everything is fine and can't improve. Instead, we should all agree with all these changes that are thrown on people like we're some lab rats ready to beta test what is supposed to be the basis for what they deem as "balanced."

You look at any one of these streamers and racers and tell me with a straight face that they are not elite-minded, I'll wait. Yet these are the people that are being listened to during the expansion reveals on the baeclasts with their input on the game. Where are the real responses to any concerns, besides bugs, from the devs via forums other than them saying they will look into it? Where are the polls for anything outside of an mtx that they will just end up profiting from, yet make you feel like you had some say in something?

I never called anyone docile capitalistic sheep either, as you falsely tried to make it look. If you actually read what I wrote, I said the mentality of people on here is the same as telling others to be this way. But I guess there's no difference apparently. And either way, I don't see how being complacent with everything is supposed to be a good thing either. Of course, why would you blame the devs, it's obviously the people who are complaining that are at fault and should adjust to everything no matter how insufferable it is. People are just complaining for no reason obviously.

There's no reason for me to even respond to any of this anymore because it'll be spun around somehow as if I'm the villain for expressing the glaring issues with the game. Ok, then let's all not talk about it because that's how positive change happens by just agreeing to all decisions without questions. And even if I disagree or point all of this out, I know that likely nothing will change either, but I voiced my opinion at the very least and that's better than nothing in my book.

"

I never called anyone docile capitalistic sheep either, as you falsely tried to make it look. If you actually read what I wrote, I said the mentality of people on here is the same as telling others to be this way. But I guess there's no difference apparently. And either way, I don't see how being complacent with everything is supposed to be a good thing either. Of course, why would you blame the devs, it's obviously the people who are complaining that are at fault and should adjust to everything no matter how insufferable it is. People are just complaining for no reason obviously.

I believe he's responding to the person before his post (not you).

"

Al_GGG wrote:

Hey guys,

Please remember personal attacks and inflammatory comments (such as politics or religion) are a breach of our Code of Conduct and are not allowed on the forums.

Having witnessed all of it, I hope GGG get things right next league so people can play instead of post in forums. I usually can't be bothered posting.

"

JohnJohn1988 wrote:

Next time when people say on the forums that they don't enjoy the game because what was fun for them was removed and someone jumps in says "no actually, you're definitely just burned out and everything is fine, you're the problem and the devs never make any mistakes", should I use telepathy and tell others on the internet to stop being passive-aggressive and using psychological manipulation? Because I don't see any moderators stopping them from doing so, it's apparently "just an opinion" when people try to forcefully convince you that what you genuinely think must be something else and is instead what they are telling you. Oh but obviously the sensible choice is ignoring all of it so that others can continue doing this to others who also disagree.

If you want everyone to agree with you, or to only disagree with you in the style, tone and manner of your choosing, then the internet probably isn't the place for you. In fact, the real world probably isn't the place for you. There is probably a safe space somewhere where nobody is allowed to disagree with anybody. That would be a suitable environment. The problem with safe spaces being that it fosters a sense of victimhood and people who are not resilient in any way.

We need resilience. As Dr Jonathan Haidt points out, the reason we have so many peanut allergies today is that parents fear peanut allergies so they go to great lengths to ensure that their children never encounter peanuts. As a result, the child's immune system cannot develop a resistance to peanuts. So their systems are not resilient, exacerbated by the parents dosing the child on antibiotics every time any germ affects them. The end result is that the germs develop a resistance to the antibiotics but the child never develops a resistance to the germs.

The same applies to our minds. We need conflict and disagreement because it does to our minds what peanuts and germs do to our immune system. It makes us resilient. It equips us to cope with the world around us rather than appealing helplessly to others to protect us. A moderator ensuring that you never get exposed to an opinion you don't like is like a parent ensuring their child is never exposed to peanuts. It's not protecting you, even if you think it is.

Really, this is not a serious issue in the grand scheme of things. It's a computer game. Some like it, some don't. That is a trivial matter in a world beset by actual problems and crises. If some cannot tolerate that others have a different opinion from them, that is their problem not mine. And it cuts both ways. Anybody who expresses a positive opinion will inevitably have a small but vocal minority who accuse them of 'white knighting' or being 'blind sheeple' or being shills planted and paid by GGG to be supportive. If the best that a debate opponent can muster is to accuse me of being a blind sheeple or a shill, my response is not outrage but pity. They're entering a battle of wits when they only have half the minimum required. If they think it makes them look good, I am not going to stand in their way. Instead my inclination is to allow them to publicly make fools of themselves.

"

porous2 wrote:

Really, this is not a serious issue in the grand scheme of things. It's a computer game. Some like it, some don't. That is a trivial matter in a world beset by actual problems and crises. If some cannot tolerate that others have a different opinion from them, that is their problem not mine. And it cuts both ways. Anybody who expresses a positive opinion will inevitably have a small but vocal minority who accuse them of 'white knighting' or being 'blind sheeple' or being shills planted and paid by GGG to be supportive. If the best that a debate opponent can muster is to accuse me of being a blind sheeple or a shill, my response is not outrage but pity. They're entering a battle of wits when they only have half the minimum required. If they think it makes them look good, I am not going to stand in their way. Instead my inclination is to allow them to publicly make fools of themselves.

amen... erm +1 :)