PoE peaked in 3.13 and I am afraid that it may never go back up again... version:2

Peak was gen 1 my dudes.

First of all ideas were fresh. Not like the 9th edition of breach in Ritual which I skipped most rituals...boring. Utimatum is Breach version 10. Back then you never knew and really anticipated dev what dev team would come with. Now? It's either gonna be another breach or some tedious bullshit.

Harvest was/is tedious BS. Right in the middle of mapping stop for 5-15 minutes and craft. But you had to use it or lose them. Total buzz kill!

Betryal/Jun is tedious BS and why it's still in game is beyond me. Again, stop in middle of farming and place these idiots and get shot at by ads while you cant see shit because syndicate screen is up. Not to mention unveiling 1000s 100% useless rares for all recipe from that troll jun who gives nothing 99% of the time....If I played trade I 100% skip whole mechanics of those two tedious leagues. But then trade is so fucking tedious I cant do that either.

Yo where is AH GGG? It's 2021. Almost like they are trying to make us waste our time with unfun tedious BS. I don't appreciate that!

Combat was way better. You actually fought fights - not like WoW raids but closer. Go back and watch a OG uber atziri run which took 30 minutes! Now it's one shot or get one shot. Or phase bosses so you don't one shot them. Just garbage combat.


PoE is fun in certain aspects. Most came from Gen 1 though like Beyond and rampage and such and builds making ofc. But Gen 3 can stick it. Only Delve I really liked. I missed Delirious league sadly but love it too. It's like Beyond + Breach, the fucking whole map!!! Just awesome.

"

IcedInferno007 wrote:

"

sidtherat wrote:

accessible - yes

but you still needed a f.. mountain of money to get anywhere with it.

people claim it being an item editor and link some great crafts forget that a) only SOME, very limited types of items could be made in a (semi)deterministic way b) good crafts were RARE, there is a reason why TFT was (and still is) a thing

ive self farmed all my crafts and to be honest - i have jack sh.. to show off for all this time.

i had 7 RA life, 1 RA chaos, 2 RA cold, 3 RA fire, 0 6links, 2 white sockets, 2 fractures (5affix), 1fracture (3prefix)

and ive played full league, lots of it doing hamlet+zana with atlas passives (i went from ~300 red zanas to ~50, that means i did around 500+ maps)

sure, you got mountains of 'chaos' (reforges) but excluding jewels you did not really have anything to spam them on. my ilvl88 warlords siege axe NEVER hit a single T2+ phys mod despite being showered in phys reforges

calling it crafting is purely dishonest. it is still luck-based gambling, with some steps removed.


for the past hour ive tried to craft a ring for my build. it needs to be very specific: 37+ int, 30cold res, 25lightning res, 70+life, added cold or phys, WED. it is a synth base that i want to include into the build.

good f.. luck crafting that with current system.



harvest might have been insanely strong(er) but if anything it is current crafting/looting system that is at wrong. not harvest.

Thats the bit that drives me mad, people thinking harvest was an item editor, free to all. If you bought the crafts, it was insanely expensive. You could still roll the wrong mods entirely, and then have to annull and reroll multiple times. When you did finally get the mod, it was usually t7, which meant more add / removes. I played hard last league and didn't have a single item come close to 6xt1.

Those that didn't use tft had to find harvest, hope the correct seeds were present, hope the correct mods were given, then hope it was a decent tier.

There was so much rng on top of rng still, it either cost you 100s ex to buy the crafts, or took you weeks of farming, maybe months, to even get that 6xt1 item that people love to link.

It was the no-lifers that had that gear, not the 99%ers. Those no lifers are still doing it this league, with Aisling t4 veiled mods, the only difference is the 99% are now left without harvest to partially bridge the gap.

Bottom line, harvest was not OP, it was not an item editor. It was only OP for players with a lot of game-time, a fortune in currency, and those willing to sit on tft all day.

Harvest on its own, was fine for the average player.

I'm an avg casual player who only made one or two thing decent in harvest errr I mean ritual.

It's not fine because it invalidates all other games systems. I literally only ran Atolls and Heist to get exalts for that troll jun to pay her hostage ransom prices on lock prefix/suffix and such.

Game became all-harvest-all-the-time. I can probably do Atoll under anesthesia.. Boring.

Anyway - now it's more perfect in that you need a bunch of systems to make GG gear fossils, essenses, harvest, and ainsling.

now you need INSANE time* investment in the first place

because there is no crafting. it is ALL gambling. harvest cut several layers out of it, but it was STILL gambling. and ofc you did use all these tools you mention.

i understand time required to 'master' a game in a skill-based game, but POE is not a skill based game. it is all luck based, rags-to-riches kind of lure.

i do not know where all these masochistic tendencies come from but i hope people will wise up and realise that actually WASTING 100s of hours is not skill nor progress. it is just an arbitrary time tax designed to keep addicted players in the game

GGG does everything it can to prolong the game and because creating content is hard, they create chores and simply change dice size: from 'you win with 1 on D6' to 'you win with 1 on D200'


biggest takeway from that is: GGG does not believe in the re-playability of their own product. they do not accept that people who 'completed' their character might actually.. create another one. maybe their stats tell them most players play 1 character only. and they focus on that. but if that reasoning is true - majority of the players dont even reach atziri so why bother about .1%?

instead they simply made the game 'harder' (lol. it is not harder, it just requires people wasting more of their life) for the 1% while making it outright tedious for the reminder of the crowd.

raizqt put it well.. it doesnt make much sense



* - several people around here play this game to escape from their lost job/mediocre job. they sink thousands of hours into it just to escape their tough irl stuff. they are ok with exuberant time requirements because 'life is shit anyway'

well.. 1000hours is longer than what you need to do a full job switch. let that sink in.

PoE peaked in 3.6, one's standards must be quite low to consider ritual even good, let alone PoE's peak.

"

MrsDeath_ wrote:

lets hear from raiz on crafting : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQJtMpUaAS0

a lots of good points where made by Raiz
- campaign = 60 hour long tutorial
- harvest gutted beyond the goal stated in manifesto, with little to no influence to top end
- lots of micromanagement a bloat


But also, if you discard all the expected atlas mechanics and progression, the game is still enjoyable but you get nothing done :)

also this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA6vZhg1TJk

"

Aim_Deep wrote:

"

IcedInferno007 wrote:

"

sidtherat wrote:

accessible - yes

but you still needed a f.. mountain of money to get anywhere with it.

people claim it being an item editor and link some great crafts forget that a) only SOME, very limited types of items could be made in a (semi)deterministic way b) good crafts were RARE, there is a reason why TFT was (and still is) a thing

ive self farmed all my crafts and to be honest - i have jack sh.. to show off for all this time.

i had 7 RA life, 1 RA chaos, 2 RA cold, 3 RA fire, 0 6links, 2 white sockets, 2 fractures (5affix), 1fracture (3prefix)

and ive played full league, lots of it doing hamlet+zana with atlas passives (i went from ~300 red zanas to ~50, that means i did around 500+ maps)

sure, you got mountains of 'chaos' (reforges) but excluding jewels you did not really have anything to spam them on. my ilvl88 warlords siege axe NEVER hit a single T2+ phys mod despite being showered in phys reforges

calling it crafting is purely dishonest. it is still luck-based gambling, with some steps removed.


for the past hour ive tried to craft a ring for my build. it needs to be very specific: 37+ int, 30cold res, 25lightning res, 70+life, added cold or phys, WED. it is a synth base that i want to include into the build.

good f.. luck crafting that with current system.



harvest might have been insanely strong(er) but if anything it is current crafting/looting system that is at wrong. not harvest.

Thats the bit that drives me mad, people thinking harvest was an item editor, free to all. If you bought the crafts, it was insanely expensive. You could still roll the wrong mods entirely, and then have to annull and reroll multiple times. When you did finally get the mod, it was usually t7, which meant more add / removes. I played hard last league and didn't have a single item come close to 6xt1.

Those that didn't use tft had to find harvest, hope the correct seeds were present, hope the correct mods were given, then hope it was a decent tier.

There was so much rng on top of rng still, it either cost you 100s ex to buy the crafts, or took you weeks of farming, maybe months, to even get that 6xt1 item that people love to link.

It was the no-lifers that had that gear, not the 99%ers. Those no lifers are still doing it this league, with Aisling t4 veiled mods, the only difference is the 99% are now left without harvest to partially bridge the gap.

Bottom line, harvest was not OP, it was not an item editor. It was only OP for players with a lot of game-time, a fortune in currency, and those willing to sit on tft all day.

Harvest on its own, was fine for the average player.

I'm an avg casual player who only made one or two thing decent in harvest errr I mean ritual.

It's not fine because it invalidates all other games systems. I literally only ran Atolls and Heist to get exalts for that troll jun to pay her hostage ransom prices on lock prefix/suffix and such.

Game became all-harvest-all-the-time. I can probably do Atoll under anesthesia.. Boring.

Anyway - now it's more perfect in that you need a bunch of systems to make GG gear fossils, essenses, harvest, and ainsling.

It doesn't invalidate other game mods, 3.13 had the best variety of grinding to do, just because some people focused on harvest, it does not mean that it was the only thing to do, I pretty much focused on Valdo's rest shards even after the nerf.

These items are supposed to mean something? They are way below average, there's even no life roll on that ring...

"

MrsDeath_ wrote:

lets hear from raiz on crafting : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQJtMpUaAS0

The whole crafting thing aside, raiz touched on a more important point, I think. If someone that plays the game that much is saying there's just too much you have to do before you get somewhere and you're finally free to have a bit of fun, maybe, just maybe, we have a problem.

"

MrsDeath_ wrote:

"

Xzorn wrote:

"

MrsDeath_ wrote:

I bet people will remember these days as the glorious crafting era of PoE.

Like the glory days of drops? Pretty much starting to end with Elder/Shaper then Conquerors putting the nail in the coffin. So much emphasis on crafting which serves to alienate some players.

Improved itemization fixes problems for all players. Drops, crafting and trade.

Fixing a problem? How can you fix a problem that does not exist?

Sarcasm? I was referring to itemization probability. Most notably base types and tier rolls that players should not have to deal with after a certain point thus raising the bar for reasonable gear.

I remember just using an Alch on a good base. All you needed was good HP and Resists back in the day. Now there's just too many potential rolls. Narrowing the spectrum improves drops which in turn improves crafting. It also keeps trade closer to the min/max gear rather than just basic stuff.

I miss the days when I would pick up rare Astral plate or similar and ID it right away. Now even if it's influenced I don't get that same feeling because I know I'll have to jump through multiple crafting loops to make it worth wearing. The game has too much emphasis on crafting IMO.

@Mukee I was not saying those items were great I was agreeing with you that I didnt make t1s just decent stuff so it was not really OP for your avg player ssf playing all three months. My point was it still forced you to play harvest non stop which i did which was boring af and bad for game is all. In trade it's a different story. Made some sick items in standard. But using tft sucked.

Bottom line is game became all harvest and nothing else for casual, no-lifers, taders and ssfs. They couldnt have that and spread it out now.

As Raiz says even sicker shit is being made with ainsling and other systems combined so wasnt about power.

@Xzorn
I remeber no masters even. Good old days where drops mattered. Now? After I got some basic map gear up and running, I use neversink uber strict because I know nothing can beat items I can craft plus what neversink show me which is very little. Game has put too much emphasis on crafting IMO. It's also tedious which does not help. I'd be happy if they deleted most of it. Harvest, beasts Betrayl and fossils, essences, Jun and made drops matter.

I thought these games were supposed to be about finding stuff besides currency and i86 T1 bases?