Where’s the f&@king endgame now?

"

DiabloImmoral wrote:

The elitists all demanded that casuals lose access to having good items, and in return for deleting Harvest crafting GGG deleted the endgame so you don't need good items anymore. Elitists got monkey-pawed hard. I love it.

Thanks for putting a smile on my face.
That's a short welcomed break from the constant headshaking when reading the forums ;)

"

In any event this is a thread full of people talking about how things that aren't getting removed are being removed from the game so this is all fucking bizzaro world in the first place. As someone else pointed out they're not mad that the 'challenging content' is being removed - it clearly isn't. They're mad it will be less profitable.

Just want to give some perspective here:

No one is denying that. The problem with this is if the hardest content in the game is not accessible unless you PAY to run it (meaning net income loss, NO profit) then you simply don´t run it. Sure, if you want to put yourself to the challenge you can still do it but why would u ever try to reach the min-maxing level required for farming 100% Deli when you won´t make money from it? For the case of Softcore Trade the ability to produce currency is mandatory for a mechanic to be used. People that complain in that regard are perfectly aware that the content still exists, but you would not run it if you lose money from it. It comes down basically to the scarcity/availability of Scarabs and Delirium orbs. With fractured fossis the investment per map were around 2 exalts. What people seem to miss is that those maps weren´t that profitable in the first place but of course if you never called a HH your own and you didn´t farm them you don´t know and always see it as some elitist content where you print mirrors. Sorry to burst your bubble, 100% Deli Maps weren´t that profitable in the first place compared to other stuff you can do: You run 3-4 Maps per hour as u have to do tons of looting, downtime of selling all those mountains of loot and it came down to a roughly 1.5ex win per Map, meaning 4,5 - 6ex per hour. Go farm lab and you made double that, deep delve you made more than double that. If you know what you were doing with betrayal u made that with betrayal too and even more. Yeah sure, those other contents were changed/nerfed too, just wanted to point out those maps weren´t that insane beforehand and the top players are just scared that the hardest content is not resulting in one of the best results in terms of income and that is perfectly fine. I am convinced that running the most difficult stuff should result in the highest income.

"

Vennto wrote:

I am convinced that running the most difficult stuff should result in the highest income.

That's fine in a game that caps your character's strength. But here you can pump your character up to the point where "the most difficult stuff" is trivial. That's the real problem. There's no uniform sense of what "most difficult" even means.

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RRoyalMarine wrote:

Deep delving - nerfed
100% delirious maps - nerfed to absolute death
Crafting - nerfed to death

If we're honest, 100% deli is far too lucrative and needs to be nerfed.

It's an absolute travesty what they're doing to harvest though . No one I've spoken to has an inherent problem with deterministic crafting as long as it isn't too easy to make perfect items (which harvest isn't... 5% chance to spawn with even lower chance to get the seed you want or to buy them from other players you're talking multiple exalts per hit). Classic case of developer ego and on-paper philosophy not aligning with real player feedback. I'm convinced the only people who support the nerf are:

1 - GGG apologists who will mindlessly agree with every decision and rationale.
2 - People who have never actually crafted their own gear and think harvest is this super easy and free gear editor that you stick an item into 1 time and get perfection.
3 - The insanely rich crafters who want less competition and can afford to spend thousands of exalts just throwing currency at an item.

edit: and if they MUST nerf harvest why not just remove target annul OR target exalt? Why does it have to be both? Sick of them nerfing with a sledgehammer instead of a chisel.

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Jourdain wrote:

Nothing is stopping you from running those same maps lmao.

Stop crying because they are no longer profitable.

Your whole post is about losing your endgame content when in reality it's still there.

Now you don't make 3-5ex per map and wonder why it got nerfed lmao.


If you want a hard experience go HC league or use a trash build that actually requires skill compared to a 1 shot everything build that's immortal.

This is the best post in here, AMEN

"

Anomaly33 wrote:

"

RRoyalMarine wrote:

Deep delving - nerfed
100% delirious maps - nerfed to absolute death
Crafting - nerfed to death

If we're honest, 100% deli is far too lucrative and needs to be nerfed.

It's an absolute travesty what they're doing to harvest though . No one I've spoken to has an inherent problem with deterministic crafting as long as it isn't too easy to make perfect items (which harvest isn't... 5% chance to spawn with even lower chance to get the seed you want or to buy them from other players you're talking multiple exalts per hit). Classic case of developer ego and on-paper philosophy not aligning with real player feedback. I'm convinced the only people who support the nerf are:

1 - GGG apologists who will mindlessly agree with every decision and rationale.
2 - People who have never actually crafted their own gear and think harvest is this super easy and free gear editor that you stick an item into 1 time and get perfection.
3 - The insanely rich crafters who want less competition and can afford to spend thousands of exalts just throwing currency at an item.

edit: and if they MUST nerf harvest why not just remove target annul OR target exalt? Why does it have to be both? Sick of them nerfing with a sledgehammer instead of a chisel.

Hahaha amen to that brother.

"

If we're honest, 100% deli is far too lucrative and needs to be nerfed.

And that´s my point: This is plain wrong and is somehow always mentioned by people who cannot run that content. The ones that actually did know it´s not that insanely lucrative as you guys seem to think it is.

"

It's an absolute travesty what they're doing to harvest though . No one I've spoken to has an inherent problem with deterministic crafting as long as it isn't too easy to make perfect items

It is though. I´ve spent around 700-800ex for BiS slot gear. That´s with endgame league prices barely above a mirror, mid league might be 2 mirrors. 2 Mirrors for 13 best in slot items? Come on, where is the balance here :D

And it´s not like harvest wasn´t being used on a lower scale: Big 2 rolls, just get rid of one or 2 bad mods, add 1 or 2 good mods, maybe reroll them once and for roughly 8-10 ex you produced an item that is 95% to the maximum of what you want for a specific build. Harvest was too strong, and I personally feel it is in a good place now. But that was not the topic here so yeah, lets move on from that.

I play both: trade and ssf.
Hard to say which one i prefer more but if i had to choose one I would say I like ssf more because it let me enjoy different aspects of a game without feeling like im wasting my time on something that gives me much less compared to best method (trading).


Now whether im looking at delirium maps changes from ssf or trade perspective I don't feel like ggg did a good job.
From perspecive of trade league these changes are simply annoying. Trading is annoying, they killed reason to craft maps and overall profit (now rather than talking about profit we should call it losing money). Meanwhile party play (Looking at you Empy) are not nerfed at all. They were using any delirium orb to boost natural drops from maps and not for delirum type rewards.
Yey another league goes to a category: useless for solo players and op for people in full party.

As for ssf. Nope. They just killed whole reason to play ssf to me.
Master missions once again nerfed. First nerf to basic % because "now we have atlas bonus". Now we say bye bye to atlas bonus.
Harvest on influenced items gone, another big nerf making whole process even longer.

And what is your reward after dealing will all these problems and getting map with desirable delirium orbs, getting deep enough in delve, crafting good enough gear etc.?
You can run two maps and repeat very long process of getting delirium orbs.
Isn't it wonderfull? Is there anything better than running empty basic rare maps in a build that can clear 100% delirium maps?

"

DiabloImmoral wrote:

The elitists all demanded that casuals lose access to having good items

Prove it.

"

Vennto wrote:

"

If we're honest, 100% deli is far too lucrative and needs to be nerfed.

And that´s my point: This is plain wrong and is somehow always mentioned by people who cannot run that content. The ones that actually did know it´s not that insanely lucrative as you guys seem to think it is.

I've not made a 100% deli farmer personally but I'm familiar with the process. It requires a lot of investment but after you get it rolling the only real cost is in fracturing the map and you make unreasonable profit. If you think the level of difficulty in setting it up is what balances it that's fine. I disagree though. You should never reach a point where you can just log on and farm exalts by the fistful.

"

Vennto wrote:

"

It's an absolute travesty what they're doing to harvest though . No one I've spoken to has an inherent problem with deterministic crafting as long as it isn't too easy to make perfect items

It is though. I´ve spent around 700-800ex for BiS slot gear. That´s with endgame league prices barely above a mirror, mid league might be 2 mirrors. 2 Mirrors for 13 best in slot items? Come on, where is the balance here :D

I'm not denying that the POWER of harvest is very high but it's balanced by the difficulty in getting opportunities to use it. How much do you imagine the average player makes in a league? I guarantee if you make more than 50ex you are a top 5% player at least. You've basically just proven my point that 100% Deli farming is too strong because it allowed you to trivialize the gearing process since you could afford to just buy a ton of harvest crafts when an overwhelming majority of the playerbase wouldn't be able to.

"

Vennto wrote:

And it´s not like harvest wasn´t being used on a lower scale: Big 2 rolls, just get rid of one or 2 bad mods, add 1 or 2 good mods, maybe reroll them once and for roughly 8-10 ex you produced an item that is 95% to the maximum of what you want for a specific build.

I mean even before harvest "95%" rares were cheap to buy. Hell, you could make a 'good enough' piece with essences for far less than 8-10ex.