Development Manifesto: Harvest Crafting

yay now us 1% players can keep getting richer and push into shrinking to the 0,05% of base. HEHEHE I pity the pleb. Give me your mirrors for the items I have harvest crafted and hoarded in standard.Thanks GGG making harvest legacy is the best !!!
You thing I khare, but I realy dond.
"
spokipo wrote:

GGG confirmed that they are doing the game for 1%, I think that the conversation with them can be ended.

Conversation you say....
I thought it needed two side for that, so far this looks more like a player monolog to me...
"
Okkuro wrote:
"
spokipo wrote:

GGG confirmed that they are doing the game for 1%, I think that the conversation with them can be ended.

Conversation you say....
I thought it needed two side for that, so far this looks more like a player monolog to me...

Figuratively =)
Beta tester path of nerf.
gg
What's really interesting, the fact that the only pinned thread on the development manifesto forum is (Improving communication - Please read first)

And I quote Chris on the following
"
Communication is Important
At Grinding Gear Games, we've always treated communication with the community as a priority. I spend several hours of each day on external communication (that's not counting answering emails), but feel that we can still improve the way that we communicate with you guys. This article explains some of the ways that we're planning on improving communication in the short term:

The Development Manifesto
The purpose of this development manifesto forum is for us to open topics on specific issues that we're working on so that we can explain how they're going to work. It's also a great place to discuss specific design philosophies that we base many of our decisions around. Please note that there are still plenty of topics that will be posted! This initial set are just the ones that we have ready in the first pass. More will be added in the coming days/weeks.


Ofcourse we can not neglect the fact that neither communication being positive or negative have been answered in anyway, bottom line is, this wasn't a conversation, just another email with a no-reply.

To make it easier, each individual message on this thread wasn't valued at all,

Simplifying it more. Your opinion doesn't matter, and you don't deserve the respect to be answered.

Isn't that right, Chris?
I get that these kind of wall of text posts can be tedious for someone so I'll hide the reasons why I think Harvest needs to change, GGG is going to change it anyway so, if you don't care, we can jump right to the point.

Spoiler

I'm not much of a forum guy, I prefer to spent my free time actually playing the game instead of doing other things around it, I only read important annoucements, take notice of them and keep going on.
This time, by the way, this announcement felt a bit too detached from what I wanted from the game, so I went reading things around and discovered that many other players felt the same way.

The Harvest system gave many people like me, casuals who are playing the game mostly few hours a day and not even every day, the chance to complete their build with powerful items that they could never be able to craft before. Items that only people like streamers or "professionals" were able to achieve, by playing 12-16 hours a day, making not one but at least 4 or 5 characters per league, each one with a "mirror tier" (or even multiple mirrors) gear.

As it is right now, even if it gives me, such a casul, so much potential, Harvest is really too much exploitable. Plus, the community created the TFT discord servers in which you can trade (amongst other things) Harvest crafting rolls, making it even more easy for you to create your "dream" item. Plus... Harvest is totally FREE, you get a roll and you can slam it on an item for free. For these reasons Harvest needs to change, I get it.

The point is that all the changes you're going to introduce are about to kill it for the most of us casual players (the majority of your playerbase), by giving even more power to that small % of players who can access the game for so many hours.

I've been playing this game from a lot of years, yet I "only" have 1660 hours of game time and I can tell you I've NEVER EVER thought of using an exalted orb on any of my pieces of gear... seriously... NEVER.
I have a friend who is playing the game much more than me, he got almost 4000 hours of game time, twice mine, and even he NEVER used an exalted orb on a piece of gear, and I'm sure that many other players don't even have this much play time so... I hope this gives you a glipse on how much detached from reality is your statement about the exitement of using exalted orbs.
Common players only want to drop exalted orbs to use them as currency and buy better gear and that's it, making the exalted loose its original porpouse.


What can be done to give these kind of currency items a "higher" porpouse and, at the same time, making Harvest less exploitable?

I thought about a couple of solutions, which I'm sure can change things.

1 - Give to any Harvest roll a cost equal (or even higher) to its function.
If I manage to get a "remove phys/add phys" I actually have to pay an annullment and an exalted orbs to use it.

2 - Create specific Harvest rolls for each influence you have in the game and give them a rarity equal to their weight.
This way, if I want to use an influence roll from the harvest not only I need to be lucky enough to find it but I also have to spend the corresponding influence exalted orb to get that mod on the item.

3 - Remove the Harvest bench from the hideouts.
Only if I find the Grove I can access the bench and modify the item, you can even put it behind a specific bossfight...
If I want to use the station a bossfight begins: if I win I get access to it, if I lose I get kicked from the Grove and it closes.

There is also a 4th change but I know that this goes against your policy of making averything in the game tradable so I'll hide it.
Spoiler
4 - Make so that every item modified with Harvest bench becomes untradable.
This way if someone uses Harvest you can be sure it is becouse he needs it and not becouse he wants to exploit it.


With or without these changes I'm sure that the little % of playerbase that is getting mirror tier items right now are still going to get them.
But I'm also sure that these things can make a difference without killing the fun of using Harvest for the most casual players.
Last edited by Kersiak on Apr 4, 2021, 5:09:53 PM
+1 to Kersiak

1. Made fossil, that works only on influenced items, like Gilded or rework Gilded (Item made by "Kesiak")
2. If influenced item have this mode, it can be crafted by harvest and cannot be traded or dropped(like normal watchstones).
Last edited by p1r0mant3 on Apr 4, 2021, 3:07:01 PM
"
Kersiak wrote:
I get that these kind of wall of text posts can be tedious for someone so I'll hide the reasons why I think Harvest needs to change, GGG is going to change it anyway so, if you don't care, we can jump right to the point.

Spoiler

I'm not much of a forum guy, I prefer to spent my free time actually playing the game instead of doing other things around it, I only read important annoucements, take notice of them and keep going on.
This time, by the way, this announcement felt a bit too detached from what I wanted from the game, so I went reading things around and discovered that many other players felt the same way.

The Harvest system gave many people like me, casuals who are playing the game mostly few hours a day and not even every day, the chance to complete their build with powerful items that they could never be able to craft before. Items that only people like streamers or "professionals" were able to achieve, by playing 12-16 hours a day, making not one but at least 4 or 5 characters per league, each one with a "mirror tier" (or even multiple mirrors) gear.

As it is right now, even if it gives me, such a casul, so much potential, Harvest is really too much exploitable. Plus, the community created the TFT discord servers in which you can trade (amongst other things) Harvest crafting rolls, making it even more easy for you to create your "dream" item. Plus... Harvest is totally FREE, you get a roll and you can slam it on an item for free. For these reasons Harvest needs to change, I get it.

The point is that all the changes you're going to introduce are about to kill it for the most of us casual players (the majority of your playerbase), by giving even more power to that small % of players who can access the game for so many hours.

I've been playing this game from a lot of years, yet I "only" have 1660 hours of game time and I can tell you I've NEVER EVER thought of using an exalted orb on any of my pieces of gear... seriously... NEVER.
I have a friend who is playing the game much more than me, he got almost 4000 hours of game time, twice mine, and even he NEVER used an exalted orb on a piece of gear, and I'm sure that many other players don't even have this much play time so... I hope this gives you a glipse on how much detached from reality is your statement about the exitement of using exalted orbs.
Common players only whant to drop exalted orbs to use them as currency and buy better gear and that's it, making the exalted loose its original porpouse.


What can be done to give these kind of currency items a "higher" porpouse and, at the same time, making Harvest less exploitable?

I thought about a couple of solutions, which I'm sure can change things.

1 - Give to any Harvest roll a cost equal (or even higher) to its function.
If I manage to get a "remove phys/add phys" I actually have to pay an annullment and an exalted orbs to use it.

2 - Create specific Harvest rolls for each influence you have in the game and give them a rarity equal to their weight.
This way, if I want to use an influence roll from the harvest not only I need to be lucky enough to find it but I also have to spend the corresponding influence exalted orb to get that mod on the item.

3 - Remove the Harvest bench from the hideouts.
Only if I find the Grove I can access the bench and modify the item, you can even put it behind a specific bossfight...
If I want to use the station a bossfight begins: if I win I get access to it, if I lose I get kicked from the Grove and it closes.

There is also a 4th change but I know that this goes against your policy of making averything in the game tradable so I'll hide it.
Spoiler
4 - Make so that every item modified with Harvest bench becomes untradable.
This way if someone uses Harvest you can be sure it is becouse he needs it and not becouse he wants to exploit it.


With or without these changes I'm sure that the little % of playerbase that is getting mirror tier items right now are still going to get them.
But I'm also sure that these things can make a difference without killing the fun of using Harvest for the most casual players.




#3 will definitely kill the fun for non no-lifers. imagine having to farm thousands of maps to craft a single item, aint nobody got time for that
"
macacodoido32 wrote:
"
Kersiak wrote:
I get that these kind of wall of text posts can be tedious for someone so I'll hide the reasons why I think Harvest needs to change, GGG is going to change it anyway so, if you don't care, we can jump right to the point.

Spoiler

I'm not much of a forum guy, I prefer to spent my free time actually playing the game instead of doing other things around it, I only read important annoucements, take notice of them and keep going on.
This time, by the way, this announcement felt a bit too detached from what I wanted from the game, so I went reading things around and discovered that many other players felt the same way.

The Harvest system gave many people like me, casuals who are playing the game mostly few hours a day and not even every day, the chance to complete their build with powerful items that they could never be able to craft before. Items that only people like streamers or "professionals" were able to achieve, by playing 12-16 hours a day, making not one but at least 4 or 5 characters per league, each one with a "mirror tier" (or even multiple mirrors) gear.

As it is right now, even if it gives me, such a casul, so much potential, Harvest is really too much exploitable. Plus, the community created the TFT discord servers in which you can trade (amongst other things) Harvest crafting rolls, making it even more easy for you to create your "dream" item. Plus... Harvest is totally FREE, you get a roll and you can slam it on an item for free. For these reasons Harvest needs to change, I get it.

The point is that all the changes you're going to introduce are about to kill it for the most of us casual players (the majority of your playerbase), by giving even more power to that small % of players who can access the game for so many hours.

I've been playing this game from a lot of years, yet I "only" have 1660 hours of game time and I can tell you I've NEVER EVER thought of using an exalted orb on any of my pieces of gear... seriously... NEVER.
I have a friend who is playing the game much more than me, he got almost 4000 hours of game time, twice mine, and even he NEVER used an exalted orb on a piece of gear, and I'm sure that many other players don't even have this much play time so... I hope this gives you a glipse on how much detached from reality is your statement about the exitement of using exalted orbs.
Common players only whant to drop exalted orbs to use them as currency and buy better gear and that's it, making the exalted loose its original porpouse.


What can be done to give these kind of currency items a "higher" porpouse and, at the same time, making Harvest less exploitable?

I thought about a couple of solutions, which I'm sure can change things.

1 - Give to any Harvest roll a cost equal (or even higher) to its function.
If I manage to get a "remove phys/add phys" I actually have to pay an annullment and an exalted orbs to use it.

2 - Create specific Harvest rolls for each influence you have in the game and give them a rarity equal to their weight.
This way, if I want to use an influence roll from the harvest not only I need to be lucky enough to find it but I also have to spend the corresponding influence exalted orb to get that mod on the item.

3 - Remove the Harvest bench from the hideouts.
Only if I find the Grove I can access the bench and modify the item, you can even put it behind a specific bossfight...
If I want to use the station a bossfight begins: if I win I get access to it, if I lose I get kicked from the Grove and it closes.

There is also a 4th change but I know that this goes against your policy of making averything in the game tradable so I'll hide it.
Spoiler
4 - Make so that every item modified with Harvest bench becomes untradable.
This way if someone uses Harvest you can be sure it is becouse he needs it and not becouse he wants to exploit it.


With or without these changes I'm sure that the little % of playerbase that is getting mirror tier items right now are still going to get them.
But I'm also sure that these things can make a difference without killing the fun of using Harvest for the most casual players.




#3 will definitely kill the fun for non no-lifers. imagine having to farm thousands of maps to craft a single item, aint nobody got time for that


If they leave the grove as it is right now, I don't think you need that much farming to find one.
For what I could experience during this league it is something like 1 every 15-20 maps, even better if you invest your atlas points in the harvest branch (which I didn't).
"
Kersiak wrote:
If they leave the grove as it is right now, I don't think you need that much farming to find one.
For what I could experience during this league it is something like 1 every 15-20 maps, even better if you invest your atlas points in the harvest branch (which I didn't).


that is not even close. over the last 2 weeks, i went through over 500 maps while only getting 3 harvests to spawn. one of them being the heart so that one was useless.

i'm running A8 and have my atlas ascendancy set up for harvest and farming haewark hamlet and lex proxima(i think that is the one) with zana for the extra maps which are all T16.

the current harvest mechanics are one of the most horribly put together game codes i think in the history of gaming.

yes, there are players who get lots of harvest to spawn and i've seen it while partied with other players. i've also read posts from other players that are having the same luck, or lack of luck, as me.

i would actually like to see the full grove come back as the harvest league was. with the current spawn rates, it would still be a very long process to even craft sub-par gear for players that GGG screws over with their crap coding.
apparently, calling someone daft, which only means silly or foolish, breaches the code of conduct...
● Personally attack or cause harm to the reputation of others
● Antagonise others in an obnoxious manner
so don't use big words like daft LMAO

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