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With 'moving goal posts' I mean several things such as nerfing either skills or items not to balance but absolutely trash them, or introducing a new version of the same skill or same unique concept without any afterthought what happens to viability of older items, then buffing monster dmg and hp ten-fold. Most PoE playrrs should already know 99 % of game items are already trash, yet they keep on introducing new ones. I'll leave implications for the reader.
I wouldn't be amazed anymore if they introduced 20 more character levels 'to spice things up' and make it so you would only get 100/120 skill points anymore per level, which would of course further break any set up for those who don't have enough time or interest for temporary leagues and do not want to play through story mode each league. Then everyone with a 90+ lvl character in standard would have to grind their vhars to 110 + level for any endgame content viability. But for concept such as 'wealth' to have any meaning, there needs to be real 'progress', of which there is so much scarcity.
Don't get me wrong: PoE is an amazing game. It's just that there are limitations to it, and a 'working economy' is one of those. Having a 3 month business cycle and making in-game transactions suck won't fix them.
Last edited by vmt80#6169 on Nov 28, 2020, 6:40:45 AM
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Posted byvmt80#6169on Nov 28, 2020, 6:27:43 AM
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Sadaukar wrote:
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Baharoth15 wrote:
I have a university degree in economics and several years of working experience in this field. How about you?
I am not pretending to not be affected by the economy, i am not, that's a fact. So what if empies team has 2 or even 20 or 200 mirrors on day 2? What impact does that have on me? The answer is none. I am not seeking to sell stuff on the market and the items i want to purchase, if that happens at all, are typically only worth a few C even in the worst case scenario and the cheaper they get, the better for me. The rise or fall of EX prices is of absolutely no consequence for me because i am not participating in the market or only to such a low degree that it doesn't matter.
Let them have all the mirrors in the world, i couldn't give 2 shits about it.
Maybe you aren't among the people who get shafted, but your arguments here are literally proving my point. You talk about how aurastacking is bad because there is a group of "oblivous plebs" who want to play wallstreet but suck at doing so and hence get fucked. People who are good at playing wallstreet benefit from it (like you apparently) and the people who actually play POE as an ARPG aren't affected at all.
You also fail to explain how nerfing aurastackers will change anything about this. Even if Aurastacking gets nerfed, Empy and other streamers/no lifers will always have a massive economic advantage over the average pleb, this isn't tied to builds or meta, it's a simple consequence of them investing much more time than anyone else. If they play 48 hours as a group of several people in the most efficient way in the first 2 days and i play 4 hours alone running around in the campaign, aren't they deserving to accumulate more currency then i do? Even asssuming that the problem you talk about actually is one, Aurastacking has little to nothing to do with it. Nolifers have always been dominating the market in this game, and they always will, in any meta. Time is money, in POE just like in the real world and they simply have more time so they win. Trying to balance builds based on this would be the height of folly.
U are right in ur examples, but I think u're only speaking of 2 extremes here.
As far as I know there is a really big middle group of players, that play the game with trade as a progress factor. What I mean by that is, those players don't know how to progress in the game other than to buy their upgrades through trading.
That means they will amass Chaos, trade them to Exalts and then farm until they can buy their precious Shavs or whatever chase item they want to have. Now that might take several days or even weeks for those players and if now in the middle of that progress the value of Exalts gets halved compared to other stuff, that means they have to farm double the time, because the shavs suddenly got much more expensive for them.
I'm not one of them, but I can see a problem there and that's the same with every leagues "META BUILD" that ppl complain about.
I know this group exists and i feel sorry for anyone who bought a dozen EX with lots of grinding only to see them lose value but the question is, what is there to be done about it? As i said, nerfing any given build won't change a thing. Even in a perfect world where every build was equally powerful, Empy and consorts would still outrace all the normal players by miles and end up with enough currency to heavily influence the market prices. This is a fundamental problem that, from my perspective, can't be changed except by doing what D3 did, remove trade. No market, no competition, no losers, kind of.
Last edited by Baharoth15#0429 on Nov 28, 2020, 6:47:17 AM
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Posted byBaharoth15#0429on Nov 28, 2020, 6:45:39 AM
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yeah that's true, but the main conversation wasn't about some streamer group. It's about a certain overpowered playstyle where more than just 20-30 streamers can become gods and farm the shit out of the game. That's what leads to inflation.
I can't talk about AS, bcz I don't care... but if a playstyle like that doesn't get balanced, then many more ppl will have to jump on the bandwagon, because they don't feel rewarded for their time otherwise.
It was the same with Herald stacking and whatever was the go to immunity build before that. Ppl will upload YT Vids of it, it becomes public knowledge and everyone tries to benefit from it > Metabuild. Now the other ppl get influenced by that through the economic changes, hence they inform themselfes about those builds aswell > change to those builds.
This creates a cycle where build diversity suffers alot in the long term.
What can be done about it? I have no clue tbh. The easy solution is hardcaps on cluster jewels, but I'm no fan of it. GGG Introduced those jewels with stacking in mind, so I think they shouldn't be capped.
Balancing during leagues won't happen anymore, because when they did back in the day, ppl complained that GGG wasted their time with destroying their builds ect. and so they already stated it won't happen other than for gamebreaking stuff.
In a game like PoE with so many variables it's also almost impossible to expect GGG to test every scenario when introducing new stuff, so there will always be a build that's beyond the power it's supposed to have.
Last edited by Sadaukar#2191 on Nov 28, 2020, 7:05:28 AM
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Posted bySadaukar#2191on Nov 28, 2020, 7:04:36 AM
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nagisanzeninz wrote:
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Do you really want to see the day Poe.ninja shows that 80% of players are playing the same exact Spark Aurastacker build? Is this healthy for the game?
I'm playing carrion golems with Syndicate Operative spectres.
Tried many combos this league, including 11 golems elementalist with 10 primordial harmonies, spent over 1000 orbs of regret this league, reached level 100, simply could not find a better golemancer build then aura stacker.
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Posted by6_din_49#4066on Nov 28, 2020, 7:30:15 AM
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nagisanzeninz wrote:
STRONGER CHAOS, that BENEFITS players
Stonger chaos is absolutely awful for players, there is a reason that I stopped playing completely when Exalt dropped to 30c and until it went back to 85c.
Since guardians maps were 6-7c instead of normal price of 14c like they are now, etc., every drop worth less chaos, and chaos is required in much higher amounts than exalts (exalts are for trading, chaos for rerolling maps and map mods).
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I don't voice my opinions out of jealousy, I voice my opinion because I understand how pathetic state this game currently in.
Game in one of it's best states tho.
You can actually invest a lot of currency into the build, making it more and more stronger. Voices and cluster jewels are indeed one of best inventions after Ascendancies.
The single bad thing about Heist is that mechanic of looking on opening doors isn't enjoyable, it's just opening doors and looting, with barely any monster fighting (there is no reason to fight monsters while escaping, just loot chests and go back to entrance).
Now I really hope it would be kept in the game next league so players could actually use almost "infinite" scaling against actual in-area combat content.
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_Daybit_ wrote:
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nagisanzeninz wrote:
STRONGER CHAOS, that BENEFITS players
Stonger chaos is absolutely awful for players, there is a reason that I stopped playing completely when Exalt dropped to 30c and until it went back to 85c.
Since guardians maps were 6-7c instead of normal price of 14c like they are now, etc., every drop worth less chaos, and chaos is required in much higher amounts than exalts (exalts are for trading, chaos for rerolling maps and map mods).
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I don't voice my opinions out of jealousy, I voice my opinion because I understand how pathetic state this game currently in.
Game in one of it's best states tho.
You can actually invest a lot of currency into the build, making it more and more stronger. Voices and cluster jewels are indeed one of best inventions after Ascendancies.
The single bad thing about Heist is that mechanic of looking on opening doors isn't enjoyable, it's just opening doors and looting, with barely any monster fighting (there is no reason to fight monsters while escaping, just loot chests and go back to entrance).
Now I really hope it would be kept in the game next league so players could actually use almost "infinite" scaling against actual in-area combat content.
There is no "in-area combat content" in the game that requires aurastacking levels of damage or defenses. It's literally a braindead build idea that uses the same exact items and jewels to make it work.
"infinite scaling" - lol, dude, if you're terrible at the game just type it out like it is. No need to hide behind terms that mean absolutely nothing.
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Posted byskillcode#2814on Nov 28, 2020, 8:18:43 AM
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skillcode wrote:
There is no "in-area combat content" in the game that requires aurastacking levels of damage or defenses. It's literally a braindead build idea that uses the same exact items and jewels to make it work.
Even most of aurastackers dying in Infused Beachhead pretty often. You're clearly wrong about defences.
And clearing maps with aurastacker level of damage is more entertaining than without, though you can reach comparable damage on multiple other builds (I plan to do fire BV assassin with explosion chest next league).
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that mean absolutely nothing.
Show me another build which could effectively scale with 10+ mirrors.
My friend reached 500+ aura effectiveness on aura stacker with 3x 1 cluster Voices. Budget variant would be 200-300%.
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_Daybit_ wrote:
Even most of aurastackers dying in Infused Beachhead pretty often. You're clearly wrong about defences.
My friend reached 500+ aura effectiveness on aura stacker with 3x 1 cluster Voices. Budget variant would be 200-300%.
They watch streamers with 10mirror versions of the build and think that is what the aurastacker build is for everyone. They dont understand the vast difference between what they see and what is affordable and real for the vast majority.
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impulze3 wrote:
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nagisanzeninz wrote:
By your logic, there should never nerfs or buffs anymore, just simply pretending every OP build is CURRENT META BUILD and every non-viable weak build is NOT-CURRENT META BUILD. All done, fire the balance department, we don't need them anymore, PoE is perfect as is right now.
Can you quote me on when i said there should never be nerfs or buffs ?
I'm sure i didn't say that, you're just putting words into my mouth and projecting some shit on me.
I'm saying that triple G will simply nerf it, and next league there will be a new meta build added that gets people like you all upsetti spaghetti. So you come here and cry about it, like every league.
And you'll also come here and cry about people crying about it.
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Posted byNexiieQT#7661on Nov 28, 2020, 11:41:13 AM
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NexiieQT wrote:
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impulze3 wrote:
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nagisanzeninz wrote:
By your logic, there should never nerfs or buffs anymore, just simply pretending every OP build is CURRENT META BUILD and every non-viable weak build is NOT-CURRENT META BUILD. All done, fire the balance department, we don't need them anymore, PoE is perfect as is right now.
Can you quote me on when i said there should never be nerfs or buffs ?
I'm sure i didn't say that, you're just putting words into my mouth and projecting some shit on me.
I'm saying that triple G will simply nerf it, and next league there will be a new meta build added that gets people like you all upsetti spaghetti. So you come here and cry about it, like every league.
And you'll also come here and cry about people crying about it.
And you'll also come here and cry about people crying about people who're crying about it
Very cool mirror Service: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3227915
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Posted byimpulze3#1573on Nov 28, 2020, 4:30:39 PM
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