Aura Stacking Might Be Broken

Every year, the same story. Whining and crying, nerf this nerf that.
So GGG takes away and giveth anew, items and mechanics shrouded in obfuscation for players to explore. It's the cycle of madness, all part of GGG's philosphy on how to reinvigorate the game and keep it interesting - new league, start with nothing, build your way up, beat the game, be a virtual king of the hill, rinse and repeat. Still sane exile?

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impulze3 wrote:

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emulatin wrote:

You're the one crying because your overpowered crutch build is about to get dumpstered.

You didn't even read what i wrote. Next league there is going to be another meta build, casuals are gonna be upsetti spaghetti and cry for nerfs. People like you contribute nothing to the solution, you dont even see the problem.

You're just asking for symptoms of a structural problem to be suppressed.

Continue the cycle of meta build, outcry, nerfs, new meta build gets popular, new outcry, new nerfs. Repeat.

Even if they nerfed every strong build and introduce true equality by making all builds exactly equal in power, only autoattack and every passive skill gives all stats, every ascendancy the same. Better players will still make more currency, get better gear and at the end dominate the economy. And people like you will cry about it.

Found the Aurastacker who's afraid of his OP build to be nerf next league.

Yeah, hiding something incredibly broken behind of terms like CURRENT META BUILD to justify is an incredibly short-sighted thing.

By your logic, there should never nerfs or buffs anymore, just simply pretending every OP build is CURRENT META BUILD and every non-viable weak build is NOT-CURRENT META BUILD. All done, fire the balance department, we don't need them anymore, PoE is perfect as is right now.

There will always be Meta build, but nerfs should be on time once or twice per league to keep everything in check and adjust when the disparities among builds are too great. You AS kids have been running rampant without repercussions for 3 leagues in a row and the consequence is now everyone, literally everyone is running AS to enjoy the benefit and compete in the economy.

A beautiful deep & complex game with thousands of combination of skills gems, gigantic passive tree, thousands of unique items and different stats..etc now boil down to 1 single, complete game breaking, walking-and-picking-loot-simulator, facetankoneshoteverything - The fabled Aurastacking build.

You're a just angry because your meta cookie cutter build that you copied on Poe.ninja from someone else is going to be nerfed. And you will have to find another broken build to farm all the currency that you so need to fuel your next overvalued meta build all over again.

If anything, GGG should be more proactive on balancing, once or twice per league and stop letting meta-abominations to fester more than 1 league, if metacancers gets to stay too long, it will kill all build diversity and singularize PoE into a 1 Build Game.

Hell, If next league GGG don't nerf aurastacker, I will jump on the ship and build one myself, why cripple myself economically If I can just make a broken build that can farm anything in the shortest amount of time possible, with least amount of effort, yielding the biggest profit that also has infinite scale? I'll just join hand to let this game die already. Why bother play a build when you can play the build.

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nagisanzeninz wrote:

By your logic, there should never nerfs or buffs anymore, just simply pretending every OP build is CURRENT META BUILD and every non-viable weak build is NOT-CURRENT META BUILD. All done, fire the balance department, we don't need them anymore, PoE is perfect as is right now.

Can you quote me on when i said there should never be nerfs or buffs ?
I'm sure i didn't say that, you're just putting words into my mouth and projecting some shit on me.

I'm saying that triple G will simply nerf it, and next league there will be a new meta build added that gets people like you all upsetti spaghetti. So you come here and cry about it, like every league.

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impulze3 wrote:

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nagisanzeninz wrote:

By your logic, there should never nerfs or buffs anymore, just simply pretending every OP build is CURRENT META BUILD and every non-viable weak build is NOT-CURRENT META BUILD. All done, fire the balance department, we don't need them anymore, PoE is perfect as is right now.

Can you quote me on when i said there should never be nerfs or buffs ?
I'm sure i didn't say that, you're just putting words into my mouth and projecting some shit on me.

I'm saying that triple G will simply nerf it, and next league there will be a new meta build added that gets people like you all upsetti spaghetti. So you come here and cry about it, like every league.

Yes, this is correct. And in the process, what people here refer to as 'economy' becomes a bad joke, because GGG nerfs the shit out here and buffs the shit out there, destroying already established itemization and making new one to replace it. People here talking about economy don't have a goddamn clue.

I'm not playing and haven't played an aurastacker. One of the reasons why playing standard in PoE is so full of shit is, there is not a hint of workable economy, and one of the reasons there is no workable economy is, GGG -the central bank- is making all the prices fluctuate unintendedly or intendedly. There is either zero attempt or competency to maintain stability.

You can't really trust that your items will store any sort of value with the policy in place. In fact, any collector attitude in a game very much based on collecting stuff will be shooting on your own foot, which I consider a major flaw in otherwise great game. If you need 3 month resets in economy that's not a working economy. Working economy would mean that I as a pleb could slowly but steadily accumulate wealth in game, grinding my way in my own pace and knowing not all of it becomes futile once GGG again whimsically announces your X item now has Y properties and is from now on worth dogshit to you or anyone else.

Even worse, above changes are accompanied with 'we buffed the monsters by 100 % hp and introduced how you kill them next month, here are the new items to achieve it'. Yes, those with more time and skill will get there but don't lie about economy to me in this game.

That's just trade leagues aspect. I won't even go to SSF issues here.

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nagisanzeninz wrote:

Finally someone who understands basic economics and the competitive nature of any free economy.

Like I've said earlier in this thread, the only people who are defending Aurastacker imbalanceness is most likely the people who are BENEFITTING from them economically, while screwing everyone else who doesn't play the FOTM Metacucking build.

Participating in that free economy is a free choice though.

You have it pretty much backwards. The people who don't care about Aurastacking "ruining" the market are those who don't give 2 shits about the economy because they hardly even participate in it. Not to mention that making stuff cheaper by increasing supply isn't really ruining a market. It's just what happens in every market every day, prices rise, prices fall, that's what it's all about. A market isn't ruined in any way just because 1 ex is only 100 C instead of 180. People who actually understand markets will simply take advantage of those developments, no matter in which direction they go.

I think the people who want aurastackers gone because of their supposed effect on the economy are simply those who want to play wall street simulator instead of an ARPG but aren't any good at it. I am not fully convinced if aurastacking is nerf worthy in general but nerfing it for that reason would be wrong for sure.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

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nagisanzeninz wrote:

Not to mention that making stuff cheaper by increasing supply isn't really ruining a market.

Surprisingly few seem to get this one. If in fact item prices were lower overall they'd become available to a bigger part of the playerbase. Instead, what some 'free-market advocates' here are suggesting is, GGG should keep on destroying items people have acquired, since destroying your neighbours sport car is somehow good for the economy.

It's a bit like saying unemployment is good, because it keeps the market price of workforce in check. To be sure, it's a valid argument for some, though not necessary 'for the economy' as they'd like to phrase it.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

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nagisanzeninz wrote:

Finally someone who understands basic economics and the competitive nature of any free economy.

Like I've said earlier in this thread, the only people who are defending Aurastacker imbalanceness is most likely the people who are BENEFITTING from them economically, while screwing everyone else who doesn't play the FOTM Metacucking build.

Participating in that free economy is a free choice though.

You have it pretty much backwards. The people who don't care about Aurastacking "ruining" the market are those who don't give 2 shits about the economy because they hardly even participate in it. Not to mention that making stuff cheaper by increasing supply isn't really ruining a market. It's just what happens in every market every day, prices rise, prices fall, that's what it's all about. A market isn't ruined in any way just because 1 ex is only 100 C instead of 180. People who actually understand markets will simply take advantage of those developments, no matter in which direction they go.

I think the people who want aurastackers gone because of their supposed effect on the economy are simply those who want to play wall street simulator instead of an ARPG but aren't any good at it. I am not fully convinced if aurastacking is nerf worthy in general but nerfing it for that reason would be wrong for sure.

You have zero understanding of basic economics. And neither does having zero understanding of basic economics nor pretending very hard that you're not in anyway affected by the economy, results in the situation where you're not afftected under said economic structure.

Items have values by supply and demand -> the rarer, harder to obtain items with high demands have higher value -> the stronger and faster the character gets to certain powerlevel to farm higher content gets higher chance at obtaining those high value items -> said people, dump those items to the market, benefitting from super high value, while its them devaluing market value of said items by dumping hundreds to thousands of them on the market -> all else is scraps for the plebs.

You're pretending 'not participating the economy' doesn't mean you're not affected by it, or getting the short end aka being screwed by it.

Just open your eyes and stop deluding yourself.

For Example:

1. Empy team sitting on multiple mirrors day 2, where were you at that time? Still trying to find your first exalts?


2. Ex:C drop from 60c to 30 in 1 day, the majority gets shafted losing 50% of their ex value without knowing why, due to first movers literally printing thousand of Exas in Heist then dump it on the market, absolutely devalue Exalted price.

3. People praising Ex:C rate low (stronger Chaos) benefits them as their smaller sales & drops means more this league. Why? Because GGG has been actively fighting on BOTS, results in STRONGER CHAOS, that BENEFITS players. By your logic 'give 2 shits about the economy because they hardly even participate in it' then go ahead and pay x2 chaos for every trade and don't benefit from the fight on BOTS. Because maybe you don't 'give 2 shit' too about the economy when it benefits you?

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I think the people who want aurastackers gone because of their supposed effect on the economy are simply those who want to play wall street simulator instead of an ARPG but aren't any good at it

You're wrong, I rarely farmed anything in the game this league due to Heist being incredibly boring, I mostly just flip items and do calculated corrupt RMR using my statistic understanding and still have a 2 mirror invested character with 700++ ex sitting in my stash. It's actually the popularity of Aurastackers that's getting me major profit (RMR jewels). I am not the one getting shafted in this economy, it's oblivious plebs like you that are getting the short end.

I don't voice my opinions out of jealousy, I voice my opinion because I understand how pathetic state this game currently in.

I have a university degree in economics and several years of working experience in this field. How about you?

I am not pretending to not be affected by the economy, i am not, that's a fact. So what if empies team has 2 or even 20 or 200 mirrors on day 2? What impact does that have on me? The answer is none. I am not seeking to sell stuff on the market and the items i want to purchase, if that happens at all, are typically only worth a few C even in the worst case scenario and the cheaper they get, the better for me. The rise or fall of EX prices is of absolutely no consequence for me because i am not participating in the market or only to such a low degree that it doesn't matter.
Let them have all the mirrors in the world, i couldn't give 2 shits about it.

Maybe you aren't among the people who get shafted, but your arguments here are literally proving my point. You talk about how aurastacking is bad because there is a group of "oblivous plebs" who want to play wallstreet but suck at doing so and hence get fucked. People who are good at playing wallstreet benefit from it (like you apparently) and the people who actually play POE as an ARPG aren't affected at all.

You also fail to explain how nerfing aurastackers will change anything about this. Even if Aurastacking gets nerfed, Empy and other streamers/no lifers will always have a massive economic advantage over the average pleb, this isn't tied to builds or meta, it's a simple consequence of them investing much more time than anyone else. If they play 48 hours as a group of several people in the most efficient way in the first 2 days and i play 4 hours alone running around in the campaign, aren't they deserving to accumulate more currency then i do? Even asssuming that the problem you talk about actually is one, Aurastacking has little to nothing to do with it. Nolifers have always been dominating the market in this game, and they always will, in any meta. Time is money, in POE just like in the real world and they simply have more time so they win. Trying to balance builds based on this would be the height of folly.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

I have a university degree in economics and several years of working experience in this field. How about you?

I am not pretending to not be affected by the economy, i am not, that's a fact. So what if empies team has 2 or even 20 or 200 mirrors on day 2? What impact does that have on me? The answer is none. I am not seeking to sell stuff on the market and the items i want to purchase, if that happens at all, are typically only worth a few C even in the worst case scenario and the cheaper they get, the better for me. The rise or fall of EX prices is of absolutely no consequence for me because i am not participating in the market or only to such a low degree that it doesn't matter.
Let them have all the mirrors in the world, i couldn't give 2 shits about it.

Maybe you aren't among the people who get shafted, but your arguments here are literally proving my point. You talk about how aurastacking is bad because there is a group of "oblivous plebs" who want to play wallstreet but suck at doing so and hence get fucked. People who are good at playing wallstreet benefit from it (like you apparently) and the people who actually play POE as an ARPG aren't affected at all.

You also fail to explain how nerfing aurastackers will change anything about this. Even if Aurastacking gets nerfed, Empy and other streamers/no lifers will always have a massive economic advantage over the average pleb, this isn't tied to builds or meta, it's a simple consequence of them investing much more time than anyone else. If they play 48 hours as a group of several people in the most efficient way in the first 2 days and i play 4 hours alone running around in the campaign, aren't they deserving to accumulate more currency then i do? Even asssuming that the problem you talk about actually is one, Aurastacking has little to nothing to do with it. Nolifers have always been dominating the market in this game, and they always will, in any meta. Time is money, in POE just like in the real world and they simply have more time so they win. Trying to balance builds based on this would be the height of folly.

U are right in ur examples, but I think u're only speaking of 2 extremes here.
As far as I know there is a really big middle group of players, that play the game with trade as a progress factor. What I mean by that is, those players don't know how to progress in the game other than to buy their upgrades through trading.
That means they will amass Chaos, trade them to Exalts and then farm until they can buy their precious Shavs or whatever chase item they want to have. Now that might take several days or even weeks for those players and if now in the middle of that progress the value of Exalts gets halved compared to other stuff, that means they have to farm double the time, because the shavs suddenly got much more expensive for them.

I'm not one of them, but I can see a problem there and that's the same with every leagues "META BUILD" that ppl complain about.

There are arguments to be made and then there are oftentimes quite elusive arguments about 'economy'.

I'm talking mainly from a SSF players perspective who has gotten tired of how the game is balanced around markets. I really wanted to find my own gear but it is nigh impossible with any reasonable grind, so i tried some trade. I still won't sell anything but I figured out, since you can't craft anything in this game with those few exalts you drop by mapping casually, you might aswell trade for something.

There are some misconceptions about trade and it's no wonder, in general, people have misconceptions about economics at large. So, why not.

First is, you can grow dead-weight alot by putting in artificial barriers, and those will not help EITHER rich or poor folk. I've been amazed how stubborn GGG has been about this one, and how people have in fact often agreed with company stance, as if anyone would actually benefit by making trade suck on purpose. If you wanted to grow transaction cost, at least you could make some listing cost of whatevs, anything better than making the trade experience suck itself. But no, they are enforcing 'save the economy' argument.

In fact, I'm pretty sure some economics student could gather up all the economic arguments made regarding PoE and do a nice fallacy list. But I DO think unnecessary fluctuations are bad for how the system is set up, because you cannot reliably work for 'wealth' in this game, unless we are talking about speculation here. You can't accumulate wealth reliably, because GGG stops you from storing value. Then again, it's a completely different thing to say whether you can control said price fluctuations by nerging and buffing constantly, because it is exactly this thinking that exarbates the price fluctuations in the first place. Now, if as a pleb I wanted to slowly work my way for a great gear, saving in-game currency, I woulfn't be able to do it -not because gear price is high but because you couldn't accumulate ANY wealth in PoE reliably. Even once I bought the gg gear at last, devs might next week just announce 'hey guys, we decided to nerf your gear into oblivion, too bad for anyone who actually put much effort to obtain in. Also, F standard and F your builds'.

The funny thing is, if there was a working economy in game, it shouldn't matter so much if there are also chase items. But you can't reliably work slowly for any target, since GGG changes their goal posts and arbitrarily changes all the parameters on the fly. Yes, game balance can be a problem, but it is linked differently to game economy than some might think.

Just my 2 cents.