Real Money Auction House RMAH for poe

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Skivverus wrote:

One player, electing to buy (or trade for) all their items, can consolidate the most powerful equipment from half a dozen other people (never mind the hundreds to thousands who either weren't selling or didn't have the really high-end stuff). The average power may not have changed, but the variance most certainly has. And that variance can then be used by the trader to farm (or progress) that much faster.

You pointed out the flaw in your argument yourself, without realizing it.

"(or trade for)"

Everything you said can occur WITHOUT buying gear. All the gear you buy was farmed by someone else. Without an auction house to sell the item, that person will attempt to trade or give it away. Why would one person give another gear? RL friends, guild members, a team trying to get the single strongest character early in the game, any number of reasons.

RMAH has nothing to do with this "problem", it simply exists as long as the game is a multiplayer game.

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Karnos wrote:

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Skivverus wrote:

One player, electing to buy (or trade for) all their items, can consolidate the most powerful equipment from half a dozen other people (never mind the hundreds to thousands who either weren't selling or didn't have the really high-end stuff). The average power may not have changed, but the variance most certainly has. And that variance can then be used by the trader to farm (or progress) that much faster.

You pointed out the flaw in your argument yourself, without realizing it.

"(or trade for)"

Everything you said can occur WITHOUT buying gear. All the gear you buy was farmed by someone else. Without an auction house to sell the item, that person will attempt to trade or give it away. Why would one person give another gear? RL friends, guild members, a team trying to get the single strongest character early in the game, any number of reasons.

RMAH has nothing to do with this "problem", it simply exists as long as the game is a multiplayer game.

Trading items for items is different than buying items with real cash.

Oh, believe me, I realized it. I'd rather not gloss over facts in an attempt to make one position stronger (though the nature of debate and human confirmation bias being what it is, this may happen anyway).

But ultimately the problem is that money doesn't have the same cap on consolidation efficiency that time does, and the "flaw", as you put it, is not enough to address this imbalance.

A guild, or group of friends, or team as you suggest, might be able to coordinate the farming efforts of - let's be generous - fifty people, maybe a hundred or two if they're really dedicated.

Real money? There's potential for getting the best out of thousands of peoples' efforts - when I said "half a dozen other players", I'm talking about those godly items that six different people on an entire server manage to find, put onto one person.

If you can find an individual - or even a guild - who can manage that with time alone, then I'll concede that "pay-to-win" does not apply.

Seems like a few people care more about what other people are doing and playing then enjoying the game for themselves.


Lets just make a league that has RMAH and 95% of people can play there and the other 5% can play without one.


Seems like a simple fix and everyone will be happy =p

real money auction house?!? hell no gazillion times no.

Ezekiel 25:17. "The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy My brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay My vengeance upon you."

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incendium wrote:

Seems like a few people care more about what other people are doing and playing then enjoying the game for themselves.


Lets just make a league that has RMAH and 95% of people can play there and the other 5% can play without one.


Seems like a simple fix and everyone will be happy =p

It's not gonna happen.

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xxnoob wrote:

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incendium wrote:

Seems like a few people care more about what other people are doing and playing then enjoying the game for themselves.


Lets just make a league that has RMAH and 95% of people can play there and the other 5% can play without one.


Seems like a simple fix and everyone will be happy =p

It's not gonna happen.

It already exists. It's called hardcore mode.
And if all of you are so 'hardcore' as you all seem to claim, the fact that you're even making an issue out of it is rather odd to me.

But then again, practically everyone here is biased to hell and back, so discussing anything D3 related is rather pointless.

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Tagek wrote:

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xxnoob wrote:

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incendium wrote:

Seems like a few people care more about what other people are doing and playing then enjoying the game for themselves.


Lets just make a league that has RMAH and 95% of people can play there and the other 5% can play without one.


Seems like a simple fix and everyone will be happy =p

It's not gonna happen.

It already exists. It's called hardcore mode.
And if all of you are so 'hardcore' as you all seem to claim, the fact that you're even making an issue out of it is rather odd to me.

Hardcore has an RMAH? Huh? Oh wait you are talking about D3 where they don't have one in Hardcore. Too bad they took the one feature I like and removed it from the mode I would play, lol.

Is this discussion not about an RMAH in PoE?

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Borka wrote:

real money auction house?!? hell no gazillion times no.

Ezekiel 25:17. "The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy My brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay My vengeance upon you."

This kinda makes me want RMAH in PoE lol

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Skivverus wrote:

Real money? There's potential for getting the best out of thousands of peoples' efforts - when I said "half a dozen other players", I'm talking about those godly items that six different people on an entire server manage to find, put onto one person.

I last saw a Mirror of Kalandra going for about 80 GCP, which is reasonable to amass if you have a guild of a few dozen people farming Maelstrom regularly, and easy if you have a hundred doing so.

Uniques and 6-link equipment aren't worth anywhere near as much, and rares with uber-stats can simply be cloned with the mirror, effectively putting an upper ceiling on prices of uber rares.

Maybe market prices will change in open beta, though.

I mean, you'd probably have to have something that costs thousands of GCP for it to be unaffordable to a guild with a hundred people. I have trouble imagining such an item.

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stkmro wrote:

So… if player A has outgrown his immortal king and sells it to player B for $2 via rmah…. So seeing player B walking ard ingame with his glowing immortal king makes it “unfun” for you yeah?????? Cannot be right???? Surely this cannot be such an ungracious attitude right???

You are one heartless prick or you are just Tunnel Visioned aka narrow minded(I hope, that your just thick as its better than the alternative).

I didnt realise I needed to spell this out for you.

If you are to blind to understand that not everyone can afford to buy advantages in a RMAH, then you are just disconnected from reality. "Just try" put yourself in some poor kids perspective just for a moment(If that even is possible for you)...

"Your arguement is the same kind of jerkoff statement I would expect to hear from people who "walk past groups of starving homeless kids and not care one bit, self assured by nothing more than the self-delusion in the fact they have money.....and that they have/had the same opportunity's you have in life........"

Its un-ethical as hell.


You also dont seem to understand that if the Diamond Player's and Gold Players such as myself can so whimsically support GGG at the levels we have. What do you think your chances of keeping up with us are on the ladder? And its fun to compete(Maybee not to you), I dont know why you dont understand about that either(And if you dont care about competing for fun, then simply dont pay attention to it and go about enjoying the game).

Do you really think that "you" would have fun getting stomped by the weight of our pocket books?.
And
Do you think "we" would have fun stomping you with our pocket books?.

I sure as hell wouldnt. Maybee a few of us(People with money to burn) would... But do you really want to help them do it?.

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...............Wait..hold up.....

"You" think "I" have an "ungracious attitude"(And here I was thinking you people couldnt get less petty) >>>> The person who wants a game based solely on "how rich I am" in real life, coupled with my skill as a gamer to determine how high on a leaderboard for competeing I would acheive.............Is trying to tell "me" the person who is trying to restrict myself from gaining an unfair/monetary advantage(That others dont have)........Calls "me"...."ungracious"......

You got issues dude.

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stkmro wrote:

Look here… nobody is doubting your support of ggg. I am certainly not doubting it and I think u r a great ggg supporter.

The only issue I dun agree with is about bringing your pre-conceived notion of “ethics” into the game. Ethics and morality is a relative term and they are constantly evolving concepts that are shaped together with the way society evolves with every passing generation.

What is considered as “not ethical” to walk around in bikinis along the beaches or nude sun-tanning or whatever etc etc in the past may not be the same in the present. Who are we to judge whether the value of game in the past is much higher? The sentiments of the gaming community are constantly evolving and the sentiments of the past generation of gamers certainly does not equate to the sentiments of the current generation.

You didnt doubt that, but I was just pointing it out for those who wished to reply as earlier someone was defameded for being a supporter.

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"Ethics and equity and the principles of justice do not change with the calendar." David Herbert Lawrence

There are these things called "ethic's classes"....And they have been around since ...let me check.....

Since officialy "Aristotle 300 something BC" or somewhere around there...

And ever since then....Humanity has never lost a single virtue or ethic. As if you didnt know, ethics only grow and you can only aquire them or choose to ignore them. You either have them or you dont.

Which ethics "you" simply choose to ignore is your own problem, not mine or society's(Unless they all decide to ignore them).

And using ethics, money is not a "Natural" factor in a competition of time and skill as it has no universal law.
(Unless we were all under some communist world wide banner where everyone is paid equaly). Adding it would effectivly remove the equality or equal opportunity to win based on qualities that have universal law.

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stkmro wrote:

I seriously dun see any “mass reduction in effort through use of rmah ingame” especially when there are items traded via rmah by both legitimate buyers and sellers (I am leaving out the resource farmers here). In fact I see a “mass increment of effort” when there is rmah.

Repitition ensue's....

""I seriously dun see any “mass reduction in effort through use of rmah ingame”""

Well that is a problem right there.... Everyone else seem's to understand buying something in 10 seconds because you have a rich daddy... compared to grinding your ass off for a week or two is completely different....

See where everyone but you is coming from?. No, well lets continue...

"Most" M/MORPG's.. And recently *Cough diablo 3*...
SELLING ITEMS OR IN GAME ADVANTAGES OF ANY KIND TO ANOTHER PLAYER USING REAL MONEY HAS BEEN CHEATING.......

Anyone you knew, who was doing this "BROKE THE RULES", they were all completely un-sportsmen like, obviously couldnt handle competing and so they "CHEATED" it was not ethical at all. And as such they were BAN HAMMAD! because they couldnt respect others and have fun like everyone else because they liked to think they were above the rules and as such everyone else. And just plain motherfogin lazy....."They wanted the reward/title without the effort" using nothing but there money to do nothing more than "Deceive People and Lie or cause harm"

And guess what? Noone for 1 second complained about the people selling and buying getting banned(Except for these people who got caught and were banned). Personaly I think they shouldve been publicly shamed....

What people were complaining about was "Why do people never stop trying to and successfully CHEATING!"
.....And the answer was simple....Because alot of people suck, cant handle it, feel entitled to revenge for their failures so they resort to underhanded tricks and others just wanted to illegally make money off another persons copyrighted content because they are criminals.

Now, how do we stop these criminals and punish those who support them?....Well, Someone came up with a solution(If you could call it that)......
Join them.....
And so now the people who were trying to defend you from criminals trying to ruin everyone's game....Have decided.....

"lets just make a RMAH aswell!!!!! We will ruin our own game so nooone will make profit off it but us, as it is our own creation."

Every deloveloper knew they could do that since the beginning of MMORPG'S or just MORPG's, but who the fog would want to join a game that is already COMPLETELY broken?(A "haven" for the cheater's we have all come to despise, who cannot play fair...And are more likely to use hacks to get their petty way now)?.

Everyone knew that. And they didnt do it for these exact reasons. People also knew some people got away with it, it sucked but it was fair..."Innocent untill proven guilty", there is a reason most people like the sound of it, because its fair.

Nobody wants a RMAH because it is the same as buying a defective game where the cheater's already decide the prices.

Alot of people will not be able to see around this point for good reason.

If you can overlook this and play a broken game, then that is your choice.

But as I made very clear earlier on.......RMAH, is just a way for the games security team to say "We wash our hands of this problem" and hand it over to you the gamers, while saying, "JUST DEAL WITH IT!".

Btw I am making a wall of text for a reason, try reading all of it. =D And not just selecting the parts you want to respond to and not the parts that discredit you.

If you still dont understand this....because you have said you couldnt....I cannot explain it to you further than this. Maybee someone with a degree in ethics would help ya.

lol