Reddit whining destroyed whole league mechanic in 5 days

This was the least worse option as someone said.

Personaly I'm disappointed by how the league concept got to live. I was expecting something like "stick to the plan": if you follow a safe route and avoid all dangers using your companhions specialties you'd succeed, but would get less rewards. If you deviate from the plan and went to a room with a big reward the odds of failing would increase a lot, to the point you could fail your heist.

For that idea to work all heist mini maps must have been created with at least two routes: a safe one with little reward and a dangerous one with big rewards, and they must intertwine in some chokepoints. And I'd say more: a third route for escaping.

But what we got is a single route minimap where you can't avoid trouble at all, where no skill nor plan was needed/would work. The heist we got is a shallow vision of what we expected. What's different from a heist and a Vaal side area? Vaal side areas are more rewarding and safer.

And worse: you have to go and go back through the same route. There's no smart play. No "use hidden side door" or "go to underground" to pass the heavy angry crowded guards behind a door. Terrible backtracking.

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yamface wrote:

[A]s if this common sense interaction magically changes with game genre.

It does.

ARPGs of both the western (Diablo clones) and eastern (WoM, KH, etc.) style don't bother with stealth. The focus is on killing enemies by the score, and stealth is about avoiding combat except when absolutely necessary.

It'd be like demanding the ability to kill 173, 106, et al in SCP: Containment Breach or kill enemies in Master Spy.

The alert system does not make sense anyway. Mob train is definitely not the answer to maximize rewards.

They stated mobs killing are not the major way to increase the alert level. It is definitely not the case right now. With low NPC gear drop rate it is just making thing worse.

I just hope it is just a temporary change to keep players playing in heist, and they will bring a better alert system later. With NPC gear drops like candy now, they can definitely add some alert mechanics in some form.

I accept the change for now as tweaking number is definitely faster than building a new system, and we are still in week 1 anyway

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yamface wrote:

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Pizzarugi wrote:

It works in Skyrim, because unlike PoE, there's more to do than murder entire screens of enemies and the game's AI was built to factor in stealth.

PoE was not built with stealth in mind. Hell, the foundation of the game was go from A to B and leave a trail of death and destruction in your wake.

Heist could easily be implemented in Skyrim. In PoE, you have to work with the system and the system doesn't like stealth. The easy way GGG can make it work is turning the league mechanic into a smash-and-grab burglary and then fighting your way out to secure it. The harder way would be to make the zones much larger and replace most of the stationary guards with patrols.

To put it more simply: Think of Heist as a more fleshed out version of Haku's mission when we had the old roster of Forsaken Masters.

I mean.. your post is kind of off topic. The quote block you're replying to is about me saying instabing guards shouldn't raise alert because that makes no sense, and then with the other guy replying that stealth in arpg isnt the same elsewhere.. as if this common sense interaction magically changes with game genre.

One game is designed to feel like a proper RPG (even if Bethesda's been streamlining it with every new iteration), and the other is a hack-and-slash dungeon crawl.

I'm surprised no one's tried to chalk up the alert on kill to the guards having magical devices that go off when they die. That's how I'd justify it. It wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility as the league already has "Observer Totem" enemies in perception jobs that slowly raise alert for just being near them.

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Song_Ryeske wrote:

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yamface wrote:

[A]s if this common sense interaction magically changes with game genre.

It does.

ARPGs of both the western (Diablo clones) and eastern (WoM, KH, etc.) style don't bother with stealth. The focus is on killing enemies by the score, and stealth is about avoiding combat except when absolutely necessary.

It'd be like demanding the ability to kill 173, 106, et al in SCP: Containment Breach or kill enemies in Master Spy.

In path of exile, the original mechanic raised alert even if you 1 shot the guards, discouraging you to kill anything. And that makes no sense.

This is my statement. I want you to explain why you think that statement is wrong, and I want you to explain why switching genres would ever magically change this logic. This isn't even about game design, it's about how reality works. If I walked into your house and instantly assassinated you, nobody would notice until much later when they check up on you. This is how the real world works. How does a guard magically notify the entire facility when he's assassinated?

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yamface wrote:

How does a guard magically notify the entire facility when he's assassinated?

You answered your own question.

Since magic obviously exists in PoE's canon, it's possible the guards had some sort of enchantment on them or their equipment which alerted someone in the event of their untimely incapacitation/death.

As to why they no longer have it? Side effects from the enchantment could involve going into a berserker rage and vomiting lasers at friend or foe that one-hit-kill them, continuing until all their co-workers are dead and the place looking like Sarn's marketplace.

I am in the boat that this league was shaping up to be amazing. I was really enjoying the league content and having another aspect of the game to progress through other than the atlas. The recent changes address what I believe were some actual issues and some that were not.

For the most part I agree with the opinions expressed by Tarke Cat in his recent video on the subject. Some changes to the pack behind closed doors was probably necessary and the on death effects need to be telegraphed better.

But the changes to the alert system should not have been made. What had me excited about this league was that going into a heist I new I was going to have to make decisions. Decisions about which chest to loot, whether or not to kill mobs, and how close I could push the alarm timer to get a couple extra chests. Now its boring content that I have to do because there isn't anything in the game with better rewards.

I think a couple of things have contributed to how we got here. First is the bugs...specifically crashes...I think there has to be more emphasis placed on identifying and resolving these first. Many of the comments I've seen here and on Reddit are reactive in nature because the content is built to be risky where you can lose everything. This is great when your own mistakes are what cost you the loot but players get frustrated very quickly when crashes are the cause. Because of this the public outcry has seemed to be stronger than for most leagues where if you crash you simply reconnect and generally only lose a bit of your time.

I also think that this content requires time and investment to gear your rogues. The early issue with equipment drops being extremely rare and often much higher level than you were able to use meant that players weren't experiencing any type of measurable progression in the content. As you tiered up the heists got harder but without significant investment there was no experience of increasing rewards. I think this is largely to blame on issues with the rogue gear and the changes to this system would have improved this for most players. GGG didn't even allow a week for players to learn and progress the content before taking a drastic step that has eliminated most of what made this content fun and challenging to interact with.

With these factors causing what seems to be a more exaggerated response to the league content than we usually see the measure that GGG took I fear has doomed this league for good. The recent changes to the alert system have made this content a farming ground that presents almost no risk to players. This will likely inflate the economy beyond a point that will allow players not taking full advantage of it now to experience the character progression that most players need to keep playing. I think this could have been an incredible addition to the core game as something that could be rewarding if you put the time in very similar to delve but has now been doomed and will not only end up degrading what this league could have been but will likely result in this content never making it to core.

I saw potential in this content during the first few days that had me really excited but now I'm just sad that it has become what it is today.

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Song_Ryeske wrote:

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yamface wrote:

How does a guard magically notify the entire facility when he's assassinated?

You answered your own question.

Since magic obviously exists in PoE's canon, it's possible the guards had some sort of enchantment on them or their equipment which alerted someone in the event of their untimely incapacitation/death.

As to why they no longer have it? Side effects from the enchantment could involve going into a berserker rage and vomiting lasers at friend or foe that one-hit-kill them, continuing until all their co-workers are dead and the place looking like Sarn's marketplace.

The magic is explained in poe. It's part of the gem lore, and how only very select few people can use them.

All of that falls under the suspension of disbelief, you just go along with the official explanation.

Guards notifying everyone on death is not part of that. They're not special gem users like you, they don't have futuristic tech. It's only left up to people to guess what's going on, in other words, it's bullshit.

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yamface wrote:

The magic is explained in poe. It's part of the gem lore, and how only very select few people can use them.

All of that falls under the suspension of disbelief, you just go along with the official explanation.

Guards notifying everyone on death is not part of that. They're not special gem users like you, they don't have futuristic tech. It's only left up to people to guess what's going on, in other words, it's bullshit.

Explain how blue/yellow/orange items have benefits to grant to their wearer. I was under the impression those were not due to gems.

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Song_Ryeske wrote:

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yamface wrote:

The magic is explained in poe. It's part of the gem lore, and how only very select few people can use them.

All of that falls under the suspension of disbelief, you just go along with the official explanation.

Guards notifying everyone on death is not part of that. They're not special gem users like you, they don't have futuristic tech. It's only left up to people to guess what's going on, in other words, it's bullshit.

Explain how blue/yellow/orange items have benefits to grant to their wearer. I was under the impression those were not due to gems.

You need to be a little more specific. Practically every defense mod doesn't need to be explained by magic. Practically every attack mod doesn't need to be explained by magic. The only thing left is spells, which are tied to... gems.