WTF is going on with map sustain this league?

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Gravedancer wrote:

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TheFazzo wrote:

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Corsair545 wrote:

Early mapping is easy sustain but once you get to the T9-T12 is when it is tough getting to sustain up the red maps required for 4 watchstone regions which means getting into the T14-16 and then actually sustaining is much more difficult from previous leagues. Due to the unrewarding mechanics of this league in regards to bonus item drops.

You do realize one of the common options of Harvest craft is to sacrifice low tier maps to get master missions, don’t you?

And that orchard fights reward you with maps too?

Play the game before criticizing it.

...you do realize that through your challenge progress we can see that you A) have only 3 watchstones B) haven't done a wild bristle matron bulb encounter yet (the "common" tier 3 seed you speak of)

Seems to me you should consider your own advice and give mapping a try before dismissing these concerns.

Map sustain is pretty horrid this league harvesting or no.

As you once said....

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TheFazzo wrote:

I'm definitely not going out of my way about anything but when people are objectively wrong you need to point it out. If you say "I don't like this league" I will accept it, but spreading false information to bash what you don't like is dishonest and stupid, and borderline criminal.

People are gonna call you on it, especially when you tell someone with 15 challenges they need to play more when you only have 10. Resorting to the having a life doesn't equate to your original dismissive tone.

Edit - it was 14 not 15 challenges.

Play the game before criticizing it - implying he had not played enough.

Clearly he did. I may not be active now but I knew exactly what he was talking about because that transition is one of the most irritating parts when completing the atlas. I was pretty annoyed doing it in delirium and that's with more drops.

It's basically a repeat of what happened in synthesis, that's why you can see so many complaints on the forums because people who have played long enough have seen this before.

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TheFazzo wrote:

Oh no, I actually suggested he did not play at all.
I am I think an average player, I don’t make more than a couple of characters every league and never got one to level 100. Sure I am no top player. But can you explain why I don’t have a problem of map sustain, running tens of maps per day in those 2 hours I play, while somebody claims maps don’t drop at all?
Also those same people are not saying how they play.
If you go zoom zoom through a map ignoring all mechanics, skipping bosses and not doing master missions you will always a problem of map sustain, but that’s not the game, that’s how you play.

Are you dense? You have no problems sustaining low tier maps.

Currently sustaining T12 with alch and go at level 90.

This is just the usual shtick with map sustain, nothing more. Do your atlas bonuses, socket your watchstones strategically and that's it.

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TheFazzo wrote:

Oh no, I actually suggested he did not play at all.
I am I think an average player, I don’t make more than a couple of characters every league and never got one to level 100. Sure I am no top player. But can you explain why I don’t have a problem of map sustain, running tens of maps per day in those 2 hours I play, while somebody claims maps don’t drop at all?
Also those same people are not saying how they play.
If you go zoom zoom through a map ignoring all mechanics, skipping bosses and not doing master missions you will always a problem of map sustain, but that’s not the game, that’s how you play.

Low tier maps are easy to sustain - the rates get reduced as you go higher. It wasn't until delve I think that I saw red maps reliably.

Why do you assume most people go zoom zoom ignoring all mechanics and skipping bosses?

Master missions were completely different before betrayal, and served an entirely different role.

Niko doesn't increase drops of anything, he just funds delve which has been nerfed so hard it's really not worth bothering with. Forgotten wealth used to drop a chaos at minimum, now it's common for it to be as low as a transmute. Map drops are sparse, even in the cities so unless you're pushing for a league challenge it's not worth the micro.

Beastiary doesn't offer a huge increase in drops, but at least the recipes are a lot less convoluted than they used to be.

Incursion is the only big boost to map loot but it's not known for actual map drops - starting from original incursion, it wasn't until delirium that I finally got an actual exalt to drop from one. EDIT - It may be a loot splosion, but most of the time there's very little worth picking up, and that's coming from someone who Id's more rares than he should. (end edit)

Zana is missions but a bit of a double-edged sword - she can offer maps you need for completion but she can also send you to your death. I've had to put off her mission more than a few times to switch to a character that I didn't mind dying in order to complete the mission successfully, as getting a nasty t16 vaal temple or unidentifed corrupted rare or guardian map can be very bad for your xp.

Also, actively using zana resets shop - not usually a problem unless there's something you want but can't afford, which happens more frequently when you're completing the atlas.

Zana has never sold a red map all league.

I've run 10 T14+ Zana mission through the map device and checked her stock every time. Not one red map to date.

Currently at awakened level 5.

Map sustain feels worse, I'm only just breaking even while using way more currency, fragments and scarabs than last league.

Breaking into T14 maps required trading, they just didn't drop.

Y’all need to invest more time in farming and do all previous league content.

When I encounter Zana in maps the maps she offers as missions have OK tiers.

But afterwards when I talk to her in hideout she sells VERY LOW tier maps. For crying out loud I'm running t14+ almost exclusively with 24 socketed stones and 120/154 and she offers me tier 12 tops for buying.

And don't even get me started on map room in temple & biomes in delve because they have the same rewards as in delirium aka close to none.

Map sustain is ... decent so far, only ran like 40 t14+ maps and I'm not running out but it certainly is annoying not getting them high tier maps from zana.

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pr13st wrote:

Map sustain is ... decent so far, only ran like 40 t14+ maps and I'm not running out but it certainly is annoying not getting them high tier maps from zana.

Yeah drops may well be the same as before, but Zana hasn't sold a level appropriate map since the first round of Conquerors.

I wasn't sure if it was because I still had only 97-154 completion, as someone had said they thought her restock was based on completion, not the map tiers you're running. Seems that's not it either if you're getting screwed over at 120/154

What I think is that people mix "not sustaining maps" with "not finding the right maps to run", which is very different because the first one literally means you run of out the tier of maps that you are supposed to run, but second one can easily happen given the altas design today.

You do need to think a bit about your strategy before running maps. For example, if you would like to get a watchstone on just one region, what you need to do is to remove watchstone from other regions so that the only maps that will drop are from the regions that you run. Also you would try to run maps that are adjacent to ones that you are missing for a higher chance of dropping.

What I really want to add is, for some reason I find it very difficult to run correct maps at around 100-120 completion, and I almost ran out of maps in my current tier. This magically disappear after I reach 130 completion. It might be possible that the map drop algorithm remove potential map drops more often when the completion bonus is within a certain range, I don't know. But one thing is that the map sustain is indeed a bit worse than last league.