Why nerf dual wielding? Whats the point of it now?

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Phrazz wrote:
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Krayken wrote:
How? Please explain with mathematics.


It's deeper than pure mathematics, as you know.

- One-handed weapons are currently a lot better. Better crit. Better speed. Better crit multi (as you get double up).

- One-handed builds have better access to more/better defenses. No problem getting max block on both 1H+shield or DW. Shields can also have -Mana Reservation, max resistances and so on.

- On top of that, DW gets 10 MORE attack speed, not increased. And used to get 20 MORE attack damage.

- Crit is better with speed. Impale is better with speed. Leech is better with speed. Hell, even bleed is better with a certain amount of speed, due to Crimson Dance. Accuracy is better with speed.

- Foils also have the benefit of the same (or better) melee strike range as 2H.

- Hell, I would even say that 1H-builds have better and more specialized Ascendancy options. Your typical choices for 1H-builds have greater access to speed.

So bring your calculator and tell me that DW wasn't better than 2H. I can promise you that DW will still be the best choice, unless they totally go ham with the patch notes, buffing the hell out of 2H. Because the buffs we've seen so far, are minor - and the nerf to DW is also pretty minor in the grand scheme of things.



Better crits? Nope many 2 hands base have good crits.

Crit is better with speed? More consistent maybe. Impale better with speed? It only matters on bosses anyway and more dps will nets bigger impales.

Good luck getting max block while dual wielding. At what cost? Half your damage?

And im not sure how you can consider a 20% damage nerf minor. Imagine if they nerfed all spells by 20% reddit would crash.
SF (and hege) is flagged as "too strong" and being nerfed.
Savior was the goto since it was an extra layer of dmg (double clones proxy).

I had a tree that unintentionally was easily interchangeable so i did a quick theorycraft comparing SF and saviour

18mil Starforge
https://pastebin.com/JqJpUhkS

28mil Saviour + 350dps sword (the default 1h template in POB)
https://pastebin.com/33HrhhDf

It is a 55% difference but depending on what you are actually using it can become 30%

About DW I think that only Savior needed some tuning instead they nerfed a blank 20% more dmg from everything DW <- this is the very bad type of balance and in this case because it is "2h slams warcry league" it smells of powercreep from miles away
Gives streamers & friends queue priority and leaves supporters who spent hundreds $ packs in the 100k queue.

GGG: Don't you guys follow streamers?
Last edited by ZaeN#4962 on Jun 16, 2020, 8:18:58 PM
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ZaeN wrote:
SF (and hege) is flagged as "too strong" and being nerfed.
Savior was the goto since it was an extra layer of dmg (double clones proxy).

I had a tree that unintentionally was easily interchangeable so i did a quick theorycraft comparing SF and saviour

18mil Starforge
https://pastebin.com/JqJpUhkS

28mil Saviour + 350dps sword (the default 1h template in POB)
https://pastebin.com/33HrhhDf

It is a 55% difference but depending on what you are actually using it can become 30%

About DW I think that only Savior needed some tuning instead they nerfed a blank 20% more dmg from everything DW <- this is the very bad type of balance and in this case because it is "2h slams warcry league" it smells of powercreep from miles away


I played Saviour and i can guarantee you that theoritical dps with it is totally different than practical dps.


Why, i think it is great because of the summoner playstyle, you kill stuff while looting and apply dps while dodging bosses. Deffo superior than dual 10395710dps craft DW
Gives streamers & friends queue priority and leaves supporters who spent hundreds $ packs in the 100k queue.

GGG: Don't you guys follow streamers?
League after league, the irritating OP COC casters get away with billions of dps.

GGG loves COC casters so much that it has a special status like Headhunter.

The advise is to just to play COC.
IMO Dual Wielding was imbalanced fundamentally Saviour or not, because it could replicate the blocking capabilities of shields while having superior offense to other categories.

Saviour will probably get nerfed at some point because that pretty much happens to every good attack-based unique.
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ZaeN wrote:


Why, i think it is great because of the summoner playstyle, you kill stuff while looting and apply dps while dodging bosses. Deffo superior than dual 10395710dps craft DW


Haven't played with saviour in a while but last time I tried it the ai was retarded sometimes.
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Krayken wrote:
And im not sure how you can consider a 20% damage nerf minor. Imagine if they nerfed all spells by 20% reddit would crash.


You keep calling it a 20% damage nerf, as if they took away 1/5 of your damage. Take it easy, they didn't.
Bring me some coffee and I'll bring you a smile.
good change imo
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yamface wrote:
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ZaeN wrote:


Why, i think it is great because of the summoner playstyle, you kill stuff while looting and apply dps while dodging bosses. Deffo superior than dual 10395710dps craft DW


Haven't played with saviour in a while but last time I tried it the ai was retarded sometimes.


The AI is better now, but they just nerfed it for clearing since the clones now only attack the monster that proc'd the clone. IMO not a huge deal, Savior is still gonna be great for killing Awakener/finding him amongst the clones and single target damage, and if you can afford a savior but need the clones clear a map then your build has bigger issues. Though, now we're getting like 30ish% less crit multi and 20% damage reduction, and nerfs to impale clusters if you reroll as a DW next league. I find it disheartening that GGG's way of trying to incentivize people to play 2H is by nerfing DW so hard... I have 5 chars this league, and while the DW savior/paradoxica does great damage it's also one of the squishier chars I made compared to the others. Oh well though, looking like about 30% dmg nerf overall to DW when you account for everything, which isn't exactly nerfed into the ground but given that good cyclone DW builds were at minimum like 60-70 ex mid-league it doesn't feel great either.
Last edited by MuTayShuN#2070 on Jun 17, 2020, 2:12:41 AM

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