Why nerf dual wielding? Whats the point of it now?

Super high end melee probably ok with this nerf, breaking into endgame will be that much harder.

DW didnt need the nerf, but if you want to force melee builds to use 2h, you probably had to nerf DW or buff 2h equally.

However, massive nerf to crit multi probably hurts melee more than casters.


Realistically all this means is that mines/traps or general non-archmage casters will be dominant more than usual, barring some unseen super-powered tree changes (unlikely).
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Krayken wrote:
If so, why nerf all dual wields when they could just nerf hollow palm?


Because DW was deemed too powerful versus the other melee options? Pretty straight forward, if you ask me.

Was it OP versus other spell alternatives? Of course not. But GGG clearly do not want melee to be the best option. So to bring DW down a notch, to make 1H, 2H and DW on the same level, they decided to (SLIGHTLY) nerf DW.

It will probably still be the best melee option, just to put in in perspective for you. That's how much better it was. Take it easy, you can still beat everything you could before.
Bring me some coffee and I'll bring you a smile.
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Phrazz wrote:
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Krayken wrote:
If so, why nerf all dual wields when they could just nerf hollow palm?


Because DW was deemed too powerful versus the other melee options? Pretty straight forward, if you ask me.

Was it OP versus other spell alternatives? Of course not. But GGG clearly do not want melee to be the best option. So to bring DW down a notch, to make 1H, 2H and DW on the same level, they decided to (SLIGHTLY) nerf DW.

It will probably still be the best melee option, just to put in in perspective for you. That's how much better it was. Take it easy, you can still beat everything you could before.


But now its much worse than sword and board and 2 hand. A 10% more attack speed isn't enough.

A 2 hander has more than 50% more base damage on average compared to 1 hander. Unless one has flat phys on every single piece of gear, the 2 hander will always net more damage.

Not to mention the removal of the best source of flat phys via the changes to Herald of Purity.
Last edited by Krayken#1299 on Jun 16, 2020, 1:58:51 PM
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trixxar wrote:
However, massive nerf to crit multi probably hurts melee more than casters.


see this is the one thing that i kind of fear. ppl talking about DW losing 20% more damage and just glancing over this. last time they nerfed crit multi it was by like 30% of all the values everywhere, and Abyssus got GUTTED. if its the same type of thing then it will affect all crit melee much more than 20% more damage ever could.

especially considering how few crit/crit multi nodes there are for melee across the entire tree compared to casters. not to mention base crit, power charges etc.

if ppl want to whine and cry about DW or melee getting nerfed then this is where i would have anticipated the argument to be
Crits been the superior scaling option by an absolute mile for a while though, last time they reduced all the crit values but we gained it back within a couple of leagues I suspect it'll happen again.

I actually think the DW change is to give those players a kick up the backside towards playing 2h as they addressed it from too many other angles already in the manifesto.

Basically a forced meta shift within melee (only a theory)
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Krayken wrote:
But now its much worse than sword and board and 2 hand. A 10% more attack speed isn't enough.


And you know this how?
Bring me some coffee and I'll bring you a smile.
I'm okay with nerfs. I don't want this game to suffer the same way other games have with excessive powercreep, which, is already bountiful in POE.

I am glad the devs recognize this and hopefully POE 2 takes the opportunity to totally knock it down a notch.
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Krayken wrote:
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frostzor27 wrote:
DW has many advantages over 2h: block, status, speed, etc.

20% damage reduction is barely a nerf.


1. The block isn't an advantage when compared to staves (18% implicit).

2. The block is clearly inferior to a shield, which can give a bunch of life and other defensive mechanics on top of that.

3. All that for a 10% more attack speed. And thats assuming 2 identical weapons (if you want the equivalent of a 600pdps 2 hander youll need like 2x 550 pdps foils). Basically a 30c two-hander will do as much damage as 2 * 50 ex foils.

There is no point in dual wielding anymore except for attack speed. But how much flat damage youll need on gear to compensate for the much lower damage compared to a 2 hander?



I saw someone else pull this same bold faced lie yesterday. Please, show me where you can buy a 30c 600pdps 2handed weapon that's not the disintegrater.

Hell the minimum for rare items right now on standard has 16 total results, minimum 40 exalts.

However, it IS hilarious to see the 180 on the subject with a single DW nerf. Your very last sentence is decrying DW dead, 2 hander OP. Hahahaha
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Phrazz wrote:
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Krayken wrote:
But now its much worse than sword and board and 2 hand. A 10% more attack speed isn't enough.


And you know this how?


Simple mathematics.
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Bleu42 wrote:
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Krayken wrote:
"
frostzor27 wrote:
DW has many advantages over 2h: block, status, speed, etc.

20% damage reduction is barely a nerf.


1. The block isn't an advantage when compared to staves (18% implicit).

2. The block is clearly inferior to a shield, which can give a bunch of life and other defensive mechanics on top of that.

3. All that for a 10% more attack speed. And thats assuming 2 identical weapons (if you want the equivalent of a 600pdps 2 hander youll need like 2x 550 pdps foils). Basically a 30c two-hander will do as much damage as 2 * 50 ex foils.

There is no point in dual wielding anymore except for attack speed. But how much flat damage youll need on gear to compensate for the much lower damage compared to a 2 hander?



I saw someone else pull this same bold faced lie yesterday. Please, show me where you can buy a 30c 600pdps 2handed weapon that's not the disintegrater.

Hell the minimum for rare items right now on standard has 16 total results, minimum 40 exalts.

However, it IS hilarious to see the 180 on the subject with a single DW nerf. Your very last sentence is decrying DW dead, 2 hander OP. Hahahaha


Ummmm starforge, Atziri's Disfavour. Both dirt cheap last league. They might be a bit more expensive this league cause they buffed 2 hand but do you think they'll be even close to a 550 pdps 1 hander? Those are 50 exalts.

Ok lets say those 2 handers are SUPER expensive and they're 10 ex each (Extremely unlikely).

Thats 10 ex 2 hander to achieve same dps as 2 * 50 ex 1 handers.

10 ex versus 100 ex for same dps.

Oh and what 180 on the subject? You seem confused.
Last edited by Krayken#1299 on Jun 16, 2020, 2:33:26 PM

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