The OP (and the text wall he referenced) really needs to do a deeper dive into POE and think about things.
There are plenty of casuals that become "pro's" by playing a lot.
You see that Starforge in your character's hand? It was likely looted by an elite player. Trade is good, you benefit from that elite player's efforts.
GGG has spent 8 years dialing in the appropriate difficulty. I opened the challenge tab once about 3 years ago just to see what it was. It blows my mind that the simpletons think that challenges are important.
Your first character is gonna suck, and that's true even if you're a veteran of D2/D3.
For many players, your tenth, twentieth, or hundredth character may be the first one that doesn't just outright have zero future past acts.
Spoiler
The amount of outside information for this game is staggering, patchily documented, and labor-intensive to cross-reference and verify. As if that weren't enough of a deterrent, the seasonal nature of play means everything you just learned about how certain items, mechanics, and skills work, might change dramatically literally overnight.
Even for my hardcore gamer friends who played the crap out of tanks, fortnite, overwatch, and other micro-intensive pvp games, the only thing worse than having to spend weeks alt-tabbed out of a game researching it instead of playing it, is having to do that shit all over again in 3 months.
The bolded part is kinda wrong, because you also have to factor in the players targets, and with the current power creep since 2.0, it's easier every league to get to end game, especially if you go "meta".
Having a decent experience in other proper ARPGs helps you navigate the convoluted "best on the market arcade shooter zoom-zoom forced meta Clicker Heroes" game around aka PoE, to such a degree, that certain playstyles are legit too easy...
It's also a question of how you set your experience - if you want to "break" the game, you need to do "more work", yet somehow, almost magically, if you want to have "FUN" and learn via trial and error, you can also experience that, albeit then, PoE can get too punishing at times...
It's not only a matter of "playing a lot", it's a matter of playing AND improving - just by using common sense, I do manage most end game encounters as a total casual n00b hoarder, because skillplay still matters in PoE - like taking 1 H to kill Uber Elder/Atziri, less for Shaper and more for AW8 Sirus, even when playing with severe penalties like dual wielding RT REAL MELEE - which got a proper increase in difficulty...
There is Standard for players that don't enjoy restarting everything ever damn months, we just need to convince TencentGGG to properly preserve the damn Atlas progression for Awakening objectives too...
PSS: Our almighty TencentGGG overlords are very scrupulous regarding criticizing their abilities to take proper decisions and consider everything "needlessly harsh and condescending"...
Good to know "free speech" doesn't apply in any form or manner on the forums these days...
Last edited by sofocle10000#6408 on Jun 15, 2020, 11:18:29 PM
Your first character is gonna suck, and that's true even if you're a veteran of D2/D3.
For many players, your tenth, twentieth, or hundredth character may be the first one that doesn't just outright have zero future past acts.
The bolded part is kinda wrong, because you also have to factor in the players targets, and with the current power creep since 2.0, it's easier every league to get to end game, especially if you go "meta".
*breaks stealth*
Then is it really your character? ;)
*ducks and is...gone.*
If I like a game, it'll either be amazing later or awful forever. There's no in-between.
the proposed changes will gut the casuals even more than before, i don't know why ppl say this is good for casuals and ppl who cant invest 100 hours a week in poe?
casuals got screwed bad, the only way u will get top items now will be no lifing (aka, no job no family no friends no outdoor activities, just poe).
Your first character is gonna suck, and that's true even if you're a veteran of D2/D3.
For many players, your tenth, twentieth, or hundredth character may be the first one that doesn't just outright have zero future past acts.
Spoiler
The amount of outside information for this game is staggering, patchily documented, and labor-intensive to cross-reference and verify. As if that weren't enough of a deterrent, the seasonal nature of play means everything you just learned about how certain items, mechanics, and skills work, might change dramatically literally overnight.
Even for my hardcore gamer friends who played the crap out of tanks, fortnite, overwatch, and other micro-intensive pvp games, the only thing worse than having to spend weeks alt-tabbed out of a game researching it instead of playing it, is having to do that shit all over again in 3 months.
The bolded part is kinda wrong, because you also have to factor in the players targets, and with the current power creep since 2.0, it's easier every league to get to end game, especially if you go "meta".
Having a decent experience in other proper ARPGs helps you navigate the convoluted "best on the market arcade shooter zoom-zoom forced meta Clicker Heroes" game around aka PoE, to such a degree, that certain playstyles are legit too easy...
It's also a question of how you set your experience - if you want to "break" the game, you need to do "more work", yet somehow, almost magically, if you want to have "FUN" and learn via trial and error, you can also experience that, albeit then, PoE can get too punishing at times...
It's not only a matter of "playing a lot", it's a matter of playing AND improving - just by using common sense, I do manage most end game encounters as a total casual n00b hoarder, because skillplay still matters in PoE - like taking 1 H to kill Uber Elder/Atziri, less for Shaper and more for AW8 Sirus, even when playing with severe penalties like dual wielding RT REAL MELEE - which got a proper increase in difficulty...
There is Standard for players that don't enjoy restarting everything ever damn months, we just need to convince TencentGGG to properly preserve the damn Atlas progression for Awakening objectives too...
pls explain why being easier to get to end game and farmign end game is wrong , in your opinion. Isnt the end game the thing to strive for?
so getting there easier is bad because..... maybe because u arent the only one selling those items anymore?
Your first character is gonna suck, and that's true even if you're a veteran of D2/D3.
For many players, your tenth, twentieth, or hundredth character may be the first one that doesn't just outright have zero future past acts.
The bolded part is kinda wrong, because you also have to factor in the players targets, and with the current power creep since 2.0, it's easier every league to get to end game, especially if you go "meta".
*breaks stealth*
Then is it really your character? ;)
*ducks and is...gone.*
Nod.
My biggest problem with this game is that the devs balance around a community that copies the strongest build over and over.
Its a semi-evolutionary process that forces people to conform to the meta over time.
The average power level in poe is someone who is following someone elses build, which is refined and improved by many players.
We are all essentially beta testing the meta, which becomes the norm.
And then they wonder why people quit the game early...
Perhaps the average power level should be a good AARPG player could design in his first month of playing?
Yes, you'd be overpowered if you completely followed the best build, but which is really better?
Last edited by trixxar#2360 on Jun 15, 2020, 11:45:26 PM
GGG enjoys challenging the top 2-5% of players more than they like engaging the other 95%.
Its just.. more fun I guess.
Whenever a build lets more than a few percent experience endgame (summoners, cyclone..) it gets shut down fast.
It's the guys who are streaming that keep a game alive; the total player base would be MUCH smaller without them. So any publisher has to keep the streamer base engaged.
To keep the streamer base engaged, it has to be both a challenging game and one that is constantly introducing new content for them to stream about.
If 90% of the player base could do all content on a 20c (or even 1 ex) budget, it would be a total fail for everyone financially.
So you make it hard, but you throw in a new meta every league. And you also give streamers enough new content that they can sometimes create metas you didn't plan for. Sometimes those metas make life a little too easy, but in general they make it possible for new players to go further than otherwise possible. That keeps more new players coming in and sticking around, and it keeps up the core income stream from MTX.
GGG needs the "other" 90% to survive. But designing the game so that other 90% could all finish would just kill the game in the end.
I disagree that streamers matter all, but its not empirical, merely Ive never ever watched one or know any who does.
Would you want to build a game for streamers, or players? Even if you are right, its disgusting. When did gaming become about streamers instead of players.
Lastly, if every league a lot of players could progress, then they would buy MTX, because this game has a ton of content and you will still be playing a lot of time simply to drop maps, if nothing else.
In short, designing a game so that the majority of players fail is pathetic, morally bankrupt, and a long term starvation for both players and devs.
GGG enjoys challenging the top 2-5% of players more than they like engaging the other 95%.
Its just.. more fun I guess.
Whenever a build lets more than a few percent experience endgame (summoners, cyclone..) it gets shut down fast.
It's the guys who are streaming that keep a game alive; the total player base would be MUCH smaller without them. So any publisher has to keep the streamer base engaged.
To keep the streamer base engaged, it has to be both a challenging game and one that is constantly introducing new content for them to stream about.
If 90% of the player base could do all content on a 20c (or even 1 ex) budget, it would be a total fail for everyone financially.
So you make it hard, but you throw in a new meta every league. And you also give streamers enough new content that they can sometimes create metas you didn't plan for. Sometimes those metas make life a little too easy, but in general they make it possible for new players to go further than otherwise possible. That keeps more new players coming in and sticking around, and it keeps up the core income stream from MTX.
GGG needs the "other" 90% to survive. But designing the game so that other 90% could all finish would just kill the game in the end.
You have an overly inflated view of streamers. I would bet that over half of the players of PoE don’t give a rats ass about streamers. Streamers are just effectively advertising and so companies tend to treat them that way.
Streamers are a lot like a parasite though. If you alter your game to appease their audience then you are going to lose almost everyone else. Thus if you don’t keep them constantly appeased your game will die, but not all games decide to be that stupid sacrificing the long term for immediate potential income. I don’t think GGG has done that though maybe they have since Tencent took over the majority.
