Wow... a /reddit comment with wisdom rather than toxic hate... That's like, God Tier unique!

So I am elitist 2% player. I am honored to be labeled like that, because I never counted myself as elitist player, due my knowledge and play skills. :D

This post is so narrow minded.

Elite means that someone is able to think for himself, have player skill and can success at given task. Have knowledge of the game and its mechanics and can use it in optimal way.

I bet that there are many elite players who dont care about challanges, thus don't complete them.

I bet there are elite players or people with predispotion to be one, yet they quit because they get bored before the game even start to be interesting. Or simply people are bored of a game where you are spaming just one attack skill versus monsters that are more dangerous after death than while being alive.

I bet there is load of people who have no idea about the game and just follow some guide, yet are considered to be elite.

I bet there is bouch of people that are handed wealth in game for free because of various reasons. They sem like elite, yet they are not.

I bet you can find many people who use illegal software, buy currency for real cash or cheat in any other way, and many people think they are elite, yet they are not.

I bet this game got loads of people who this they are elite, because this is supposed to be hardcore game, thus if they success at it, it means they are elite. Yet the truth is, this game is easier than Mario Bros.


Also nobody should care about the avarage player. The average player as you described it doesnt even care to play this game propertly. To lazy to farm, to lazy to read, to lazy to learn, to lazy to think about his build (and this game is all about that), to lazy to improve. If he isnt dedicated to do someting right, he/she shouldnt do it at all.

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herflik wrote:

If he isnt dedicated to do someting right, he/she shouldnt do it at all.

There is some truth in the other areas you mentioned which is valuable, however then this doesnt make sense at all.

What is the "right" way to play?

The most successful is copying a build guide, and doing what you are told. No imagination, you dont even really need to understand your own build mechanics, if you follow closely.

Understanding fight mechanics is generally useful, but often only moderately necessary if you are a ranged/spell/summoner or you have the dps threshold.

What is generally not successful?

Experimenting with builds, trying your own builds and combinations, focusing on more than one primary skill, going off-meta, not abusing mechanics (herald, double dipping, etc.)

The very things that would make a game with a huge skill tree and lots of skills fun for many players.

Now why is it not successful? The most direct reason is that content is balanced around the top few percent of builds. The huge options in PoE create a massive spread of dps, survivability, move speed, etc. To challenge the top, you have to make the bottom 90% completely unable to do content.

Which is why everyone just follows a few meta builds.

I am not saying this is wrong or right, but it does seem like a shame in a game with nearly infinite possible builds, for it to be dominated by 8-10, with another couple dozen with tiny representation.

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trixxar wrote:

GGG (like many before them) enjoys challenging the top 2-5% of players more than they like engaging the other 95%.

Its just.. more fun I guess.

Whenever a build lets more than a few percent experience endgame (summoners, cyclone..) it gets shut down fast.

But, its a free game, so whatever. Design around the top 0.1%, and players will find the loopholes (herald stacking) that make it work. Of course, it means 95% of game skills and builds are irrelevant and everyone will flock to meme builds that arent fun to play.

Cyclone has never been "shut down" aside from the change waaaaaaay back when it's initial hit was nerfed to make it so it wasn't the best single target melee possible. It's been the most played main skill for every league since they've made it feel decent, and it only got a significant nerf (that left it still ridiculously overpowered) when it was over half the players in legion.

Summoners similarly have never been shut down aside from the changes to snapshotting, and have been getting stronger every single patch aside from the skele and baron nerfs (and skeles and zombies are still hundreds of times stronger than they were leagues ago.)

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dyneol wrote:

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dachoppa wrote:

*shrug* seems like everything is labeled as 'hate' these days

Because it is. There is way too much hate going on. Look at every single league announcement. People spew their irrational hate for the game before they even know any details about a given league.

And casuals are clearly hated as well. I mean, do you even forum ? "Casual" is clearly meant derogatory for some reason.

It appears that many, including me, feel that the game often feels unrewarding for the effort/time spent. I am an SSF player and this is even more pronounced there.

It is the company's choice to decide how "grindy" the game is. It is the players' choice to decide whether to move on to other sources of entertainment.

I could respond to the original post in many ways. While I agree with most of what the person said (which isn't anything new), what's the point?

What's the point? What's the suggestion? The implication is that there is something wrong that needs to be fixed.

While there are certainly things I don't like about the game and the direction it's going, I find it hard to say it's "wrong" or needs to be "fixed".

Because here's the thing. All those casual players still play. I speak as a casual myself. Not casual in the sense that I haven't played much. I have many thousands of hours in this game. I'm casual in the sense that I'm not a top player, I'm not all that good at the game, In over six years of playing I've never done most of what is considered "end game".

But most importantly, I don't care. I play anyway because the game has enough content that I enjoy. It's enough to keep me playing.

The way I see, there are thousands of games out there. I've only played a small percentage of them. How is the "end game" content that I haven't played in POE any different than the content of the thousands of games I've never played at all?

There is very little difference to me. It doesn't bother me that there is POE content that I haven't played any more than it bothers me that there are thousands of games I haven't played.

I play to enjoy the game and pass the time. The content I play serves that purpose. It's completely irrelevant that there are end game bosses I've never met.

As I said at first, I could respond in many ways. There are plenty of things I don't like about the game. But whether I voice those complaints or not, I know there is only one question that really matters. Do I play the game or not? The answer is yes, I play the game. There is enough for me, and there is enough for the top 1%. Good for them and good for me.

Out of all the thousands of games out there I CHOOSE to play POE, and so do the top 1%. I find it very hard to say there is something "wrong" that needs to be fixed.

egh, gross. catering to casuals. I probably fit in the casual realm but making your game "more accessible" is how they lose their core playerbase (the people who made the game famous) and become jokes. Just look at Blizzard.

Is it more profitable? Sure. Hopefully Tencent money helps keep that motivation to turn casual at bay, for the west anyway

How many % of the players in OP's post are bots, gem runners, stash tab fillers, etc? The numbers doesn't mean much without those stats.

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Dkodr wrote:

How many % of the players in OP's post are bots, gem runners, stash tab fillers, etc? The numbers doesn't mean much without those stats.

GGG has been given stats about number of challenges.
I am quite sure that small number of all people (no bots) finish the story mode actually.
(Chris has been talking about that in the past).

I think game has become more casual in some way (endgame content and gear is more accessible) but harder in the other (more things to learn, many different crafting options, …).

Game is missing more QoL features (better explained mechanics for new players, better tooltip/ingame skill planner/calculator, smth that auto-picks up ID scrolls or fragments, better stash sorting and things like that, …) ah an better graphics/character model.
The things that will attract new people and keep them interested long enough.

On the other hand late endgame shouldn´t be for everyone and easy to keep veterans / players who likes a bit of challenge.

Interesting, seriously. :)
But can we put some "frames" to that "casual player"? -A player who just started playing PoE? A player who dont know what is chaos recipe and trading? A player who plays in Standart?! A player who create a char in the league to only write his name on exile's letters in Lioneye's watch?
A player who uses only basic attacks or max 2-link gem setup on his white items?
-Sorry, but any of those above are called NOOBS and anyone who can play 1-2 hours a day or even not every day, but also knows something about the game can progress enough to make it to 24 challenges and level 90+ in a league /maybe with global chat help for couple rng or single target challenges/, can do easily 10-20c in that time when reach act9+ and so have budget over 1ex for his build - and that barely interacting with league mechanic which should be the idea of playing in league together with free rewards and fresh start.
BTW im still single and can spend more hours in the game but i usually play in weekends and speak about those things by my own experience in last dozen leagues. And i skip new meta builds so those casual players who decide to go for new meta can do well even on budget because new meta builds are usually temporary too GG.
And about 250dps weapons example...i think that just the game evolved - we saw mobs hp+resists buffs, we see many ways to farm and craft good gears and so we stack exp easier and faster while also got tons of drops for tons more chances for exalts between tons of cheap orbs and so the base budget "evolved" just like player's expectations and knowledge /ty PoB/.
So maybe "casual players" is not what each of us would think of and we need to define its meaning first and by doing that we would get why there are such statistics as OP wrote and who is who. :)