Wow... a /reddit comment with wisdom rather than toxic hate... That's like, God Tier unique!
" Well I have to say this is wrong. The biggest streamers after Kripp arrived regularly referred to Softcore as Scrub core and were pretty dismissive of most players that weren't in their small group of race winners. Nugi was an exception back then to be fair though. I think the changes to league mechanics and such, over the years have actually pushed away many of the elitists over time. |
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" Yep they are annoying as they spam spit and downvote every non hyperbolic thing out there, "boohoo looks like trash unlike that vid of 30sec clear 1 shaper per seconds yolo gonna post ms paint memes" but as you stated they are a minority, of overvocal 20yo edgelords, they are annoying af (and very often uninformed because of warped perception) but try to ignore them, like literally click ignore and you'll be fine and won't get affected by their anxiety Gives streamers & friends queue priority and leaves supporters who spent hundreds $ packs in the 100k queue. GGG: Don't you guys follow streamers? Last edited by ZaeN#4962 on Jun 12, 2020, 8:00:24 PM
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Honestly, people that are calling themselves casual just mean inefficient. You can easily get to t16s and Sirius playing one hour a day after two weeks or so. All you need to do for that is to invest a tiny bit of time on YouTube to watch some tutorials. And that is probably the only thing you can really accuse GGG of, their tutorials suck and they hardly explain anything.
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Going to copy what I said on the reddit thread :
Let's take the record Delirium player count (even though it was influenced by the quarantine) which was 200 000 players. Out of those 200 000 players, 160 000 players didn't make it to yellow maps. 40 000 did. Out of those 40 000 players, some didn't make it to red maps, some didn't make it to Sirus at least once. I'm not going to guess the exact number of players who experienced at least half of the content of the game but we can assume it's much less than 40 000. For Delirium specifically, I can vouch that at launch it was perfectly fine/challenging from levelling to yellow maps, but it then became a bit too much once you reached T16. So they nerfed the mechanic pretty hard. Results ? Now you could actually play Delirium in red maps pretty safely, but from levelling to yellow maps ? Boring and really not challenging at all. Easy fix : nerf/buff things based on the enemy lvls instead of a global balance based on the inputs of the very few people who voice their opinion on Youtube or Twitch, people who sink 3000h in the game in the span of a league (I'm looking at you Mathil "there was too much loot in Delirium") So GGG is telling us that it's fine to release content experienced by less than 40 000 people and balance it based on even fewer inputs, but they are concerned about the "long term health" of the game if they make trading "too easy" by implementing the trade mechanic already active on the China servers. (yes I'm salty about the Trade Manifesto, the devs' logic makes 0 sense, go read it if you don't know about it) What is actually worrying for the "long term health of the game" is the fact that (based on what I gathered online, probably not accurate numbers) about 10% of the people who heard about/tried to play PoE actually played it more than a couple hours. So based on above numbers, 1 800 000 players didn't get into the game because of poor accessibility, having to rely on third party softwares (I mean those are just devs not doing their jobs), and having to spend countless hours on Youtube to learn about the BASIC mechanics of the game, the core league mechanics, the worst clusterfuck I ever saw : the Atlas, wtf this currency does and where does it drop etc etc How about making it so those 1 800 000 players stick to the game, and make it so that a bit more than 20% of your playerbase (!!!!) can experience most of the content ? I assure you this would be best for the "long term health" of the game. Now how would I do that ? By making ACTUAL tutorials for everything (the initial tutorial starting in Act 1 is the only good one in the whole game but it's really limited) it could even be tutorial "quests" for core league mechanics, making trade less of a hassle (please ?), balancing things differently depending on what part of the game you're supposed to experience it in (levelling, white maps, yellow maps, red maps and beyond) How I understand it is that the people deciding everything in GGG are hardcore fans of their game and just aren't tuned with the majority of the playerbase. They probably, like streamers, play the game a lot when they're not working, and when they're working well it's on PoE. That's why everything probably makes sense to them, and why they're balancing things based on what is also their own experience. I can understand that and that's why I mentionned not-global-balancing. This way you can keep the grind real for those top % players while making it accessible for the rest. Well this was really long to write so I probably got lost on the way but it's supposed to sum up my feelings. |
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" As someone who has brought friends to the game and played with them on a casual basis, "trickle-down toxicity" exists and is both inherent in the game design and part of the player culture. At the beginning of this league, Alex (not his real name) could reliably get deli orbs in white maps with his budget ice shot pewpew and me in tow with my budget cursebot/bane witch. Then Things (TM) happened and the meat & potatoes of the league content became locked behind a performance wall. This meant your pc had to perform better than Alex's or mine to not dc you in a juiced map or even while the normal mirror was active; and you had to "git gud-er" so you could afk the delirium mobs whie your computer and connection thought bout maybe letting you play, or maybe dumping you to login screen, or maybe just closing to desktop. Meanwhile chat 820 was like "u suk" "git gud" "juiced niko rota t18 100 quant+ no weak pc" "sim rota no afk" We tried doing higher maps to get more sim shards. This didn't work out, since the lag was still there, and now the monster hp was bloated so we couldn't clear them fast enough. We were stuck in white maps for a while and this seriously hurt our simu yield later. I felt cheated by the system because of the change. No I was not out on Harbour Bridge all day grinding low fogs. We were just doing our normal atlas fill and master missions and what you're supposed to do every league to gear up. And it sucked. And people rubbed our noses in it. I gave up on pushing the atlas and instead ran lab for a month tattooing various things on cheap hats and flipping them. When the design decisions for access to league content are so bad that uber lab is BETTER than your league content experience, for someone who isn't quite the casual numpty, it's bad for the game. [19:36]#Mirror_stacking_clown: try smoke ganja every day for 10 years and do memory game
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" Couple of things here but let me start by saying I definitely understand where your coming from i've had the same issue with friends of mine getting them in the game but by being in white maps your already not in the group of players I was talking about. Toxicity definitely exists in PoE and the higher you get the worse it gets but a large majority of players never get to where they will experience it aside from global chat which is the same in every game, that isn't because its not there its because most tap out long before maps, trading, price fixing, scammers, reddit min/max threads, build advice etc. The rest of your response doesn't actually seem like its about toxicity and is more about really poor technical performance from either yours or GGGs end for the actual league mechanic and the resulting gate it put on you playing together. Harbor bridge though is a case of overtuned reward for its placement, some players were always going to be aggrieved but you could get 8 rewards reliably in less than a couple of minutes once you got good at it. Players always get salty about decisions like that on both ends, they shout and generally behave like children but thats internet 101 :( |
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" Seriously not trying to pick on anyone specific, but this is a perfect example of what the OP is talking about. This kind of thinking is common in the gaming community as a whole, and even more common in POE. This statement is so completely and utterly wrong. I hate to use a term like "average player", but I will say a very significant percentage of players are not capable of doing what you say. I think there are a very significant percentage of players who could not do that even if you gave them ALL the gear for the top meta build - including leveling gear, complete with sockets, links and gems. Give them exact step by step instructions. Put the gear in their stash and all they had to do was equip the gear at the right level. I think they not only couldn't do it in the time frame mentioned, I think they couldn't get there at all. I think they would hit a wall where they could no longer level because they were dying too much. I commonly see things said in the forum that vastly overestimate the ability of "normal" players. As an example, I'll use the old racing seasons. I just looked, and I ran 1170 races. The contrast between players is extreme. Take a look at any of the regular races. Here's a sample page of the last full race season (Medallion). https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-forum/leagues-and-race-events/page/12 Look at any race of about 30-60 minutes. The level drops off very quickly. Even on the first page, which is top veteran racers, there is usually a difference of 3-7 levels. It continues to drop off quickly after that. In a one hour race, when the "First player to reach level xx" is announced, I considered myself doing decent if I was HALF their level. I sucked at racing, but most players sucked more than I did. I was usually in the top 20-35%, and commonly got points for top in class. So an above average racer was only HALF the level as the top racers. No it is NOT easy to get to T16 maps and Sirius, especially not in 14 hours or so. I firmly believe that the average player CAN'T get there. No amount of play time, or watching videos, or reading forums is going to change that. So what difference does all this make? The OP was not really about GGG. It was about forum members, especially when they give advice to new players. To quote the OP: "So when posting, please keep in mind that the average player isn't anywhere NEAR at the level that you guys think they are." I think a lot of advice given on the forum is inappropriate because it doesn't keep this in mind. "Just watch the mechanics of the boss." "Everything is telegraphed." "It's a cheap 10 exa build." No, players are not watching the boss telegraphing, even if they watched a video that showed exactly what to look for. They are in fucking panic mode just trying to stay alive, not looking at boss mechanics. There are 50 thousand things going on, and they are looking at their empty flasks and health bar that's at 10%. They are NOT doing a pixel hunt in all those fireworks that might give a clue what's happening. As for 10 exa cheap build. New player doesn't even know what the hell 'exa' means. Last edited by harddaysnight#7837 on Jun 14, 2020, 4:04:36 PM
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" Yes 14 hours to Sirus just isn't doable for the (really) vast majority of players. But I disagree with the quote, watching videos and playing more is the solution to the problem. However it's definitely not normal for a game to force new players to invest hours and hours of searching through Youtube to find old, outdated, convoluted and scattered informations. Just to know how to progress the Atlas, not taking into account league mechanics that made it core, their rewards and crafting options. And I played EVE Online. I made my wife play the game two days ago and she didn't understand why she couldn't just launch the game, pick a character and start from there. I had to explain to her why it was "normal" to pick a build easy to gear and easy to play (on a forum), launch PoB (a third party software...) and then only start playing only to get overwhelmed instantly by the amount of mechanics that are thrown at her face with little to no explanation Last edited by zKeyy#0806 on Jun 14, 2020, 4:25:00 PM
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Dead game, PAZ sur vous les kheys nonobstant
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" Your first character is gonna suck, and that's true even if you're a veteran of D2/D3. For many players, your tenth, twentieth, or hundredth character may be the first one that doesn't just outright have zero future past acts. The amount of outside information for this game is staggering, patchily documented, and labor-intensive to cross-reference and verify. As if that weren't enough of a deterrent, the seasonal nature of play means everything you just learned about how certain items, mechanics, and skills work, might change dramatically literally overnight. Even for my hardcore gamer friends who played the crap out of tanks, fortnite, overwatch, and other micro-intensive pvp games, the only thing worse than having to spend weeks alt-tabbed out of a game researching it instead of playing it, is having to do that shit all over again in 3 months. [19:36]#Mirror_stacking_clown: try smoke ganja every day for 10 years and do memory game
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