Exp Loss is freaking unbalanced

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ampdecay wrote:

Why shouldn't playing the hardest difficulty at the highest levels not be hard, even on default?

The death penalty actually has kept me playing back in closed beta, if I didn't hit that brick wall at a 100 mph on my first character and have to start a new one I wouldn't be here today, I would have gotten bored a long time ago

The XP penalty has NOTHING to do with the game being hard. It's just a pure annoyance thrown in there by the devs.

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Undon3 wrote:

Why shouldn't playing the hardest difficulty at the highest levels not be hard, even on default?

Please explain your point there because I don't see how it makes sense.

It has a lot to do with the game being hard which I have outlined more than once in these threads.

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Undon3 wrote:

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ampdecay wrote:

Why shouldn't playing the hardest difficulty at the highest levels not be hard, even on default?

The death penalty actually has kept me playing back in closed beta, if I didn't hit that brick wall at a 100 mph on my first character and have to start a new one I wouldn't be here today, I would have gotten bored a long time ago

The XP penalty has NOTHING to do with the game being hard. It's just a pure annoyance thrown in there by the devs.

So you are saying the XP penalty does not make it harder to level up? Why are you complaining about it then? If the game is so easy, and the XP penalty doesn't make it any harder then there should be no reason to whine about it. Bads will whine about things that are challenging. This is not new. The XP penalty makes leveling in default more challenging, since leveling is the primary objective it is indirectly making the game more difficult.

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deteego wrote:

The death penalties were completely trivial and miniscule compared to this game

Its also 13 year old mechanic

You can't compare the two

1) I absolutely can compare the two. Path of Exile is supposed to be a successor to the diablo franchise. It doesn't matter how old those games are. Plus PoE is not straight out copying them.

2) Diablo 1's death penalty WAS NOT at all trivial. ALL of your gear dropped on the ground and you had to recover it naked, and even if you recovered it you STILL lost gold.

I will let someone else argue about D2's death penalty since I didn't play as much D2 and can't remember as much about it.

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thepmrc wrote:

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Undon3 wrote:

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ampdecay wrote:

Why shouldn't playing the hardest difficulty at the highest levels not be hard, even on default?

The death penalty actually has kept me playing back in closed beta, if I didn't hit that brick wall at a 100 mph on my first character and have to start a new one I wouldn't be here today, I would have gotten bored a long time ago

The XP penalty has NOTHING to do with the game being hard. It's just a pure annoyance thrown in there by the devs.

So you are saying the XP penalty does not make it harder to level up? Why are you complaining about it then? If the game is so easy, and the XP penalty doesn't make it any harder then there should be no reason to whine about it. Bads will whine about things that are challenging. This is not new. The XP penalty makes leveling in default more challenging, since leveling is the primary objective it is indirectly making the game more difficult.

First, I am not complaining about anything. Yes, I think it's a badly implemented annoyance that makes people play a certain way, which is not fun for most, but I adapt and died very, very few times in the 70s/80s. I have my Alt-F4 safety (very heroic) and advance a totem length (even more heroic...), and I do just fine.

This doesn't mean I'll ever agree that it makes the game hard. It makes it ANNOYING though. Which is the exact opposite of gaming-->fun-->play.

You want to make the game hard? Put some damn hard mobs in it, that require strategy and thought to pass them (no, not the kind that one shots you, this is lame design). Put serious bosses that take 100 tries to kill. Put lengthy, hard and epic quest lines.

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Nagisawa wrote:

First off, even with infinite lives 'zerging' is not going to help you in most games if you keep dying, XP penalty or not.

In this game zerging would be a legitimate and easy way to play. Pop a portal often and you can play in any fashion you want, if you die your immediately back in the action with nothing lost. Death would be completely insignificant ALL of the time.

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Nagisawa wrote:

It helps with ARPGs because power is directly tied to gear and level. In fact this genre of ARPGs is designed for 'zerging'. Diablo and Diablo 2 were the same, there is no strategy. Just loot and scoop.

Diablo 1 was certainly not designed FOR zerging. Even if you had NO gold on you (which was uncommon from what I remember), you still hated to die because you have to waste all of that time getting your gear back and if you somehow lose your internet connection, YOUR GEAR IS GONE FOREVER. Zerging in PoE would be far easier and have no meaning at all.

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Nagisawa wrote:

The XP death penalty does ONE THING. It artificially inflates the length of the game, nothing more. You can convince yourself otherwise, but it's not doing anything to help you or other players 'learn to play'.

I disagree. If your NOT dieing or not dieing often then your obviously doing something right compared to the guy who dies enough to completely hate the death penalty. The death penalty doesn't even matter until the last difficulty and the higher levels, by then your character should be at a point that your not dieing that much.

You lose some time grinding when you die but you should still be gaining in currency and items and you should be making your character better so that you don't die as much! Without the death penalty its just free for all lala land. "Hey bro I died 45 times today lol, I still gained 5 levels though and I am on my way to the level cap YAY"

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iamstryker wrote:

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deteego wrote:

The death penalties were completely trivial and miniscule compared to this game

Its also 13 year old mechanic

You can't compare the two

1) I absolutely can compare the two. Path of Exile is supposed to be a successor to the diablo franchise. It doesn't matter how old those games are. Plus PoE is not straight out copying them.

2) Diablo 1's death penalty WAS NOT at all trivial. ALL of your gear dropped on the ground and you had to recover it naked, and even if you recovered it you STILL lost gold.

I will let someone else argue about D2's death penalty since I didn't play as much D2 and can't remember as much about it.

Diablo II actually had the exact same death penalty as PoE, a flat % of XP 10-15%, on Hell difficulty. In addition to this you left a corpse on the ground which had all of your items, if you were able to recover your corpse you got 50-75% of the lost XP back, however this meant braving the denizens of hell naked or having a friend that could clear your corpse. Either way, at high levels in D2 death was just as punishing. I would lose about a week of grinding with 1 death at level 98.

Exp loss "unbalanced"? I don't think the concept of balance applies to death penalty, therefore it cannot possibly be unbalanced (or balanced).

It can, however, be excessive.

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thepmrc wrote:

Diablo II actually had the exact same death penalty as PoE, a flat % of XP 10-15%, on Hell difficulty. In addition to this you left a corpse on the ground which had all of your items, if you were able to recover your corpse you got 50-75% of the lost XP back, however this meant braving the denizens of hell naked or having a friend that could clear your corpse. Either way, at high levels in D2 death was just as punishing. I would lose about a week of grinding with 1 death at level 98.

More specifically, the exp loss in D2 was 5% on nightmare and 10% on hell. With the 75% recovery upon getting your corpse back the effective loss of exp was only 1.25% and 2.5%, respectively. There is no comparable mechanic in POE to recover lost exp. Due to higher base penalties and the lack of any recovery mechanic, the death penalty on POE is approximately 6x higher than D2.

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strongbong wrote:

Did you never reach lvl 70 yourself to see how much exp you lose in 1 death? I play for 10 hours exp grind, then die 2 times to desync(GGG's fault) and lose all that exp gained?

Why do I lose 10 hours because of your problems?

Pls explain how you will adress this problem.

simple, DONT DIE, MAKE A PROPER BUILD

I play under the exact same conditions as you, I am level 85 and never died...

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PolarisOrbit wrote:

Exp loss "unbalanced"? I don't think the concept of balance applies to death penalty, therefore it cannot possibly be unbalanced (or balanced).

It can, however, be excessive.

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thepmrc wrote:

Diablo II actually had the exact same death penalty as PoE, a flat % of XP 10-15%, on Hell difficulty. In addition to this you left a corpse on the ground which had all of your items, if you were able to recover your corpse you got 50-75% of the lost XP back, however this meant braving the denizens of hell naked or having a friend that could clear your corpse. Either way, at high levels in D2 death was just as punishing. I would lose about a week of grinding with 1 death at level 98.

More specifically, the exp loss in D2 was 5% on nightmare and 10% on hell. With the 75% recovery upon getting your corpse back the effective loss of exp was only 1.25% and 2.5%, respectively. There is no comparable mechanic in POE to recover lost exp. Due to higher base penalties and the lack of any recovery mechanic, the death penalty on POE is approximately 6x higher than D2.

I seem to remember that the actual amount lost and the % regained varied, but I could be mistaken there. How often would you actually be able to recover your corpse though solo? Typically if you died with all your gear on you would just be dying again trying to get your corpse back.