Exp Loss is freaking unbalanced

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Baron01 wrote:

It is poor design when death penalty cause aggravation and frustration that eventually might lead to players leaving the game.

It's not possible to design a game which appeases everyone hence some player attrition is to be expected. Sorry to hear that you think the death penalty in default league is too harsh. Please feel free to enjoy the games which you've played before and that have no death penalty or which have a death penalty you feel is appropriate. Also...I can haz u'r stuffs?

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Phaeded wrote:

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Baron01 wrote:

It is poor design when death penalty cause aggravation and frustration that eventually might lead to players leaving the game.

It's not possible to design a game which appeases everyone hence some player attrition is to be expected. Sorry to hear that you think the death penalty in default league is too harsh. Please feel free to enjoy the games which you've played before and that have no death penalty or which have a death penalty you feel is appropriate. Also...I can haz u'r stuffs?

So you're willing to sacrifice 90% of the player base over a stupid mechanic because YOU'RE happy with your overpowered build? Funny stuff.

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Nagisawa wrote:

So you're willing to sacrifice 90% of the player base over a stupid mechanic because YOU'RE happy with your overpowered build? Funny stuff.

What makes you think 90% of the player base agrees with you? There are games designed to appeal to people who don't want consequences for failure. Maybe you'd be happier with Diablo 3. D3 went the carebare route with almost no penalty for death.

Path of Exile, on the other hand, is trying to appeal to a different market segment. It preserves a lot of the things many of us loved about diablo 2, and games like it. Noteably, a consequence for failure.

I too have died (on hardcore characters, even) from lag or desync, and it definitely sucks, and I definitely raged. But that sort of thing doesn't happen often enough to put me off the game. Having no consequence for failure, on the other hand, would put me off the game pretty fast. I'd probably run a pure offense low life build for a while, and laugh as I one shot myself on reflect packs, but I'd get bored fast and quit.

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Phaeded wrote:

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Baron01 wrote:

It is poor design when death penalty cause aggravation and frustration that eventually might lead to players leaving the game.

It's not possible to design a game which appeases everyone hence some player attrition is to be expected. Sorry to hear that you think the death penalty in default league is too harsh. Please feel free to enjoy the games which you've played before and that have no death penalty or which have a death penalty you feel is appropriate. Also...I can haz u'r stuffs?

You fail at reading comprehension. I have not said anywhere I'm quitting nor I have said the penalty is too harsh in general. I do not agree with the way death penalty is implemented in PoE at this moment.

There is also philosophical level in this debate as to whether death penalty provides any meaningful feedback to player and also enrich a game.

My view on this subject is clear, I do not support death penalty because I do not believe it adds anything interesting to the game and does not enrich my experience with the game as a player. The feedback is very well provided by the game even without death penalty--the fact you die on itself is good-enough feedback. If you are dieing for whatever reason, you are effectively getting the feedback. You hit a wall, be it entering Cruel, Merciless, trying to kill Kole or Piety, doing lvl66 maps or doing lvl72+ maps. Not being able to progress further in the content is perfect feedback.
Adding very steep penalty to already delivered message, ie. "You cannot pass", is just a salt into injury.

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The only reason the death penalty exists is to artificially pad the length of this game. Any other excuse you kids bring up is just that, an excuse to make yourselves feel better about having to Korean MMO grind your way to 'the end game'.

That's an interesting take you have on my post, there, considering what my rather public stance on the death penalty. As an aside, you may wish to avoid addressing the gallery as "you kids," it doesn't really help you.

--C

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Nagisawa wrote:

The only reason the death penalty exists is to artificially pad the length of this game. Any other excuse you kids bring up is just that, an excuse to make yourselves feel better about having to Korean MMO grind your way to 'the end game'.

You think its acceptable to repeatedly die and get to lvl 100? Are you advocating that their should be no death penalty at all? Because that would make the game feel really stupid.

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Baron01 wrote:

The feedback is very well provided by the game even without death penalty--the fact you die on itself is good-enough feedback.

I can't believe so many people think this way. Dieing would mean nothing at all if you just instantly pop back up and portal back to where you died. Death would then just need to be removed from the game entirely because its pointless. I certainly wouldn't care about that "feedback". The grind to 100 would feel much more boring to me personally, anyone could do it no matter how much they died (sucked).

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Phaeded wrote:

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Baron01 wrote:

It is poor design when death penalty cause aggravation and frustration that eventually might lead to players leaving the game.

It's not possible to design a game which appeases everyone hence some player attrition is to be expected. Sorry to hear that you think the death penalty in default league is too harsh. Please feel free to enjoy the games which you've played before and that have no death penalty or which have a death penalty you feel is appropriate. Also...I can haz u'r stuffs?

Actually, this is a VERY GOOD answer. Its only fault is that it comes from the wrong person.
Let GGG state what Phaeded say, in a clear announcement, let the mods close all death/XP loss topics, and it will be clear.
But they are not doing that. Anybody want to guess why? :)

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iamstryker wrote:

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Nagisawa wrote:

The only reason the death penalty exists is to artificially pad the length of this game. Any other excuse you kids bring up is just that, an excuse to make yourselves feel better about having to Korean MMO grind your way to 'the end game'.

You think its acceptable to repeatedly die and get to lvl 100? Are you advocating that their should be no death penalty at all? Because that would make the game feel really stupid.

Yes this much is obviously clear. There is a lack of real game/endgame content, there is a small team, they try to prolong their game. In a rather extremely artificial manner. How about GGG being sincere and say "We don't have the means to put out long expansions often, so you're stuck with the XP loss", instead of trying to sell it as some hardcore mechanic.

Yet, a penalty should obviously exist. You don't need to drop 15% of plater's XP for a death. Just reset the encounters. If the player learns and manages to win in the end, it's all that should count.

Also, about level 100. Should everybody (with a HUGE amount of time at their disposal) reach it?

Sure.

But they should reach it when the hardcores&dedicated would have reached it already and are busy with new challenges... and obviously only if they take the time to grind through it all, which with current content and no deaths is a huge chore in itself. Why is it not enough?!?

Death penalty in Cruel, all the way to lvl50+, requires probably 10 - 15 minutes to get lost experience back.

Death penalty in Merciless, up until lvl65, requires probably 15 - 30 minutes to get lost experience back.

Death penalty in Merciless, from lvl66 to lvl75, requires probably 30 to 45 minutes to get lost experience back.

Death penalty in Merciless, lvl76+, requires probably 90 minutes and much much more to get lost experience back.

Now explain to me why is the same death penalty, ie. 15% experience loss, escalating so much. It is still the same penalty as stated in the game overview section on this site.

I'm not against death penalty, be it experience loss or otherwise, but it should be appropriate punishment when considering its cost, in this game it is time investment. I dont think flat scaling of experience penalty with limited content where to get it back is the best approach.

PS. I dont quit, you cant have my things.
PSS. My melee character, 2nd I got to 80, died 8 times on the way compared to 75 times for my ranger, who was first OB character. I have no issues with the penalty, still dont like it.