Can we stop pretending that Path of Exile is free to play?

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Draegnarrr wrote:

It isn't designed and balanced around stash tabs, it'd be an absolute fucking joke to do Awakener 8 and all the content on the default 4.

like 95% of your characters value is in about 1% of the space in your stash, you can still buy stuff with default tabs and thats all you need you can be a hilarious good character on SC for 20c and use the other 3 tabs for your worthless map collection lol

All true. Although you can technically do the game by jumping through tedious hoops (mule accounts/characters), it's not reasonable. The linkage between trading and the stash tabs is when my opinion on the matter of F2P shifted though; not the excessive amount of things you need to store.

It is now pay to play; not pay to win.

Stash tabs does provide a baseline advantage now, but with quickly diminishing returns. I would say somewhere in the $50-100 range is when you cap out any benefits you may get from stash tabs. Since this game provides free updates rapidly, that's the best deal you'll ever find for a pay to play game.

The fallacy in all these threads is the assumption that if you can prove that it is not F2P, it must be P2W. That is false.

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Aynix wrote:

You just dont pick useless white maps when you run red tier maps.

They don't drop with how the current atlas works. Currently I have more than 300 red maps combined (not even talking about unique maps and yellow ones I have).

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Stanelis1 wrote:

They don't drop with how the current atlas works.

...except they do. Current atlas doesn't bypass the completion bonus, nor anything that invokes map drops like barrels/crates or Strongboxes.

You can BLOCK OUT most white/yellow drops by (basically) fully completing your atlas and having your maxed Awakening, but the entire way to that you're either getting garbage or need garbage to get the maps you want to run.

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Nubatron wrote:

All true. Although you can technically do the game by jumping through tedious hoops (mule accounts/characters), it's not reasonable. The linkage between trading and the stash tabs is when my opinion on the matter of F2P shifted though; not the excessive amount of things you need to store.

You don't need mule accounts or characters, you use 1 stash tab for currency 2 for maps and 1 for whatever you want it isn't really a hoop. Most players aren't gonna be running around with 50ex of mixed currency and nor do you need 50ex to do anything.

Like frankly having every single stash tab but playing galvanic arrow is a bigger "hoop" than playing a summoner with 4 tabs in terms of time wasted.

nor can it be proven that it isn't f2p because it isn't, whereas I can definitively prove it is by paying nothing and doing all the content (as has been done) which means the only line being drawn and moved is at what threshold you think non f2p lies. But it is free, and you can play it.

People may as well argue that Apex isn't f2p because tryhards were using dark coloured skins on the night maps lmao

lets see:

- Don't pick up items (maps, "useless rare items, uniques etc") ✔

- Create mules constantly and call it a day ✔

- It's your fault or you're too "cheap" ✔

- The system is fine just dont play arpgs ✔

That's a wrap up and a bingo.. it's the same echo chamber words from the same people when it comes to this matter.

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Draegnarrr wrote:

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Nubatron wrote:

All true. Although you can technically do the game by jumping through tedious hoops (mule accounts/characters), it's not reasonable. The linkage between trading and the stash tabs is when my opinion on the matter of F2P shifted though; not the excessive amount of things you need to store.

You don't need mule accounts or characters, you use 1 stash tab for currency 2 for maps and 1 for whatever you want it isn't really a hoop. Most players aren't gonna be running around with 50ex of mixed currency and nor do you need 50ex to do anything.

Like frankly having every single stash tab but playing galvanic arrow is a bigger "hoop" than playing a summoner with 4 tabs in terms of time wasted.

nor can it be proven that it isn't f2p because it isn't, whereas I can definitively prove it is by paying nothing and doing all the content (as has been done) which means the only line being drawn and moved is at what threshold you think non f2p lies. But it is free, and you can play it.

People may as well argue that Apex isn't f2p because tryhards were using dark coloured skins on the night maps lmao

The game has accumulated a lot of things at this point that you have to store to get the full effect from:

All Currency
Metamorph Parts
Divination Cards
Atziri Fragments
Uber Atziri Fragments
Shaper Fragments
Elder Fragments
Uber Elder Fragments
Timeless Splinters
Timeless Emblems
Breach Splinters
Breachstones
Pale Court Fragments
Itemized Prophecies
Essences
Fossils
Resonators
Maps
Oils
Watchstones (Unique)
Scarabs

And that's before you get into the discussion about what equipment to hold on to.

The game is pretty hard to manage on four tabs now. That being said, if someone makes it far enough to accumulate all of that they should pay something IMHO. Call it an extensive demo with no gated content before that point.

Given all of that, I could still concede that it is F2P in the most fringe of terms except for trading being linked to the premium stash tab. The convenience and ease of trading because of that tab pushes it out of F2P in my opinion as the game is balanced around trading.

Can you get around it with external player developed tools, sure. But should you have to trust some random person with your account information to make it easy?

Also, I have more tabs than I will ever possibly need. I won't say how many exactly because it's embarrassing....but a LOT. (That is why I can say definitively that there is a point where tabs provide absolutely no value and buying more will do nothing)

You absolutely can collect a ridiculous amount of tat but you don't need to use any of those and actually most of them are a waste to store and the content ones like splinters, fragments etc don't actually take up very much space.

The question isn't whether its easier to do it with extra tabs its whether you can do it without and the answer is yes, if you had no tabs at all i'd agree you are forced to buy some but the default 4 is enough to play the game if you aren't a hoarder.

Which admittedly will be pretty hard for a new player who won't know just how fucking worthless almost everything you loot is but still :P its free.

All your points are good btw i've nothing wrong with your argument I just personally know from experience what its like to play the game with 4 tabs so I know it really isn't that bad. I've only got about 10 now and frankly I could fit everything I actually want to keep in my one quad tab the rest is just me being lazy.

Knowing that I can't really just pretend the game suddenly becomes unplayable with 4, it'd be harder if you were a dedicated SSF player but on trade league everyone else stores your shit for you.

PoE is absolutely Free to Try Out.

PoE is Free to Play if you're extremely poor or extremely cheap or extremely casual.

PoE is much better if you pay at least a little bit, 500 mtx points or so. GGG deserves at least a little something for making a game you enjoy.

Good lord, this turned crazy.

Anyway, after reading all of it..."pay to enjoy unless you're extremely masochistic or enjoy endless inventory/item scrutiny"?

Something something. I always knew the game was "somewhere in the middle".

F2P and P2W are ends of a spectrum, with tons of middle ground. PoE still sits in the middle, but I still think it's pushing the wrong way.

For the record...my initial post was really geared towards new players entering the game in it's current state. I saw that everything got turned into arguments about players with years of experience and competitors doing it with the 4 basic tabs.

I'm glad there were some out there defending that fact that new players who maybe just made it through the acts aren't going to have the incredible amount of game knowledge required to manage everything they might need in four tabs.

The whole reason I brought this up, is I have enough hours in, and enough tabs...that I don't know what current-day PoE feels like with just four tabs. Sure, I could create a new account and try it...but I honestly just don't have the time (and having a built-up account already would kinda ruin the experience for me).

Anyway, thanks for mostly having decent discussions. It was fun. :D

Free game, no bitching.