Can we stop pretending that Path of Exile is free to play?

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Stanelis1 wrote:

I don't think anyone is arguing the game should be free here, that s simply not the point of the topic. However, if the game were to be buy to play, maybe there wouldn't be as much inventory clutter as there is now. As it stands, maybe more than 99 % of the dropped items are actually inventory clutter and it doesn't feel good, even as a paying customer with stashes.

The point of the topic is "F2P". No one can argue on the fact that PoE is "F2P". It's simply a fact. Does the game encourage you to pay? Of course. Does your enjoyment of the game increase by paying? Sure, like most F2P games.

Going with the F2P model, you have a choice. You CAN play the whole game for free - if you want. You CAN pay a little bit to increase your enjoyment. But no matter how you spin it, it's still a choice. Maybe someone FEELS like they don't have a choice, but that does not change the fact that you do.

When you see all these cheap people in here, arguing like madmen about $3-$10, do you actually think P2P would be a better business model? Hell, I don't know. Maybe. I think a lot of this... "Cheapness" comes from people reading "F2P" and demand not spending a dime.

That's cheap people. Broke people, on the other hand? That's OK. Not all people, especially in certain parts of the world, can afford those $3-$10. Do they still have a chance to play the game? Yes. They wouldn't if the game was P2P.

No, this whole debate is based off of some stupid, chemical reaction in people's brain when they read "F2P", and this entitlement of having everything for free gets created.

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Stanelis1 wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

I don't feel sorry for people that can't pay GGG very much or nothing. People that provide little financial support to GGG should be very pleased and happy that they get to play such a great game while only having to pay a little.

I don't blame GGG for always coming up with new mechanisms to use up inventory space. They are just trying to run a business.

I don't think anyone is arguing the game should be free here, that s simply not the point of the topic. However, if the game were to be buy to play, maybe there wouldn't be as much inventory clutter as there is now. As it stands, maybe more than 99 % of the dropped items are actually inventory clutter and it doesn't feel good, even as a paying customer with stashes.

I have to agree that inventory clutter is a slight irritation even though I buy the special tabs. GGG started down the F2P path and it's probably too late to switch paths now.

I also don't have a problem with people arguing that GGG should call the game free to try out rather than free to play (or something similar?). I mean, I don't really agree with that but recognize there is some rational for the position. I just can't get excited enough about those points to really care that much.

I guess I'm just getting bored with the F2P "controversy". :-)

Look, I like jerking off as much as the next guy, but this thread has gotten a little ridiculous. You should all just stop before you go blind.

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Turtledove wrote:

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Stanelis1 wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

I don't feel sorry for people that can't pay GGG very much or nothing. People that provide little financial support to GGG should be very pleased and happy that they get to play such a great game while only having to pay a little.

I don't blame GGG for always coming up with new mechanisms to use up inventory space. They are just trying to run a business.

I don't think anyone is arguing the game should be free here, that s simply not the point of the topic. However, if the game were to be buy to play, maybe there wouldn't be as much inventory clutter as there is now. As it stands, maybe more than 99 % of the dropped items are actually inventory clutter and it doesn't feel good, even as a paying customer with stashes.

I have to agree that inventory clutter is a slight irritation even though I buy the special tabs. GGG started down the F2P path and it's probably too late to switch paths now.

I also don't have a problem with people arguing that GGG should call the game free to try out rather than free to play (or something similar?). I mean, I don't really agree with that but recognize there is some rational for the position. I just can't get excited enough about those points to really care that much.

I guess I'm just getting bored with the F2P "controversy". :-)

They went the F2p path because it makes more money. Thats one of my main gripes with this playerbase, or any F2p playerbase. You have fans, or people, telling you how lucky you should be to get to play the game for free, like GGG did you a favor.

No, it was a conscious business decision. People spend more money on F2p games. They just do. Same reason companies look at the mobile market. Same reason so many MMO's were saved by going F2p instead of a subscription model. Most of them even made more money, swapping to a F2p model, than they did before.

GGG did not make the game F2p out of the kindness of their hearts. Even myself, I've spent more money on F2p games than I ever have any B2p games. I might not have a supporter icon, but I've spent probably 100-200 bucks on this game. Same goes for say, League of Legends.

So when people start the "Just be glad you can play for free" BS, its kind of annoying to me, even as someone spending money on said games. They chose that to make money, not to be saints.

I think PoE is ok. Its not the best F2p system out there anymore, but its tolerable. I think years and years ago, it was a much better system than it is now. There are better, and there are worse, examples of F2p.

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Stanelis1 wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

I don't feel sorry for people that can't pay GGG very much or nothing. People that provide little financial support to GGG should be very pleased and happy that they get to play such a great game while only having to pay a little.

I don't blame GGG for always coming up with new mechanisms to use up inventory space. They are just trying to run a business.

I don't think anyone is arguing the game should be free here, that s simply not the point of the topic. However, if the game were to be buy to play, maybe there wouldn't be as much inventory clutter as there is now. As it stands, maybe more than 99 % of the dropped items are actually inventory clutter and it doesn't feel good, even as a paying customer with stashes.

I agree 100%. The amount of loot to sift through has gotten ridiculous, even _with_ extra tabs.

Problem is critical thinking and logic doesn't work too well on fanatics who take feedback as a personal attack on their lord and saviour.

If it's not in the manifesto it can be disregarded.

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Destructodave wrote:

They went the F2p path because it makes more money. Thats one of my main gripes with this playerbase, or any F2p playerbase. You have fans, or people, telling you how lucky you should be to get to play the game for free, like GGG did you a favor.

No, it was a conscious business decision. People spend more money on F2p games. They just do. Same reason companies look at the mobile market. Same reason so many MMO's were saved by going F2p instead of a subscription model. Most of them even made more money, swapping to a F2p model, than they did before.

GGG did not make the game F2p out of the kindness of their hearts. Even myself, I've spent more money on F2p games than I ever have any B2p games. I might not have a supporter icon, but I've spent probably 100-200 bucks on this game. Same goes for say, League of Legends.

So when people start the "Just be glad you can play for free" BS, its kind of annoying to me, even as someone spending money on said games. They chose that to make money, not to be saints.

I think PoE is ok. Its not the best F2p system out there anymore, but its tolerable. I think years and years ago, it was a much better system than it is now. There are better, and there are worse, examples of F2p.

And you're right.

The F2P model has a tendency to make more money these days, especially with niche games like PoE that will never reach a player count of 1 million. It's no secret. People are happy to spend money.

But give players some credit here. They decide how much they want to spend. They decide IF they want to spend. And when you CAN experience EVERYTHING the game has to offer without spending a dime, there's nothing wrong or unethical with the F2P model.

No matter how to turn, twist and spin, a F2P model gives players a choice. You can see in this thread that a lot of players choose to not spend money, which is totally OK - every F2P model is based off of a certain amount of people not spending money. Hell, F2P games thrives on the amount of players, be that paying costumers or non-paying costumers.

Sure, certain games base their F2P model on strictly cosmetic MTX's, mainly in PvP genres that has a tendency of attracting a lot of players - and keep them, based on that competitive scene.

NOTHING of this makes PoE any less F2P. This whole debate - from the OP - is based on a wrongly definition of the term "F2P". PoE is - has always been - and will probably always be a F2P game, no matter how much a player "feels" he has to pay.

As I've said before; I understand debating if PoE is P2W. I don't think it is, but I'll respect the debate. But a debate whether or not it's F2P? It's nothing more than a idiotic premise.

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Phrazz wrote:

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Stanelis1 wrote:

I don't think anyone is arguing the game should be free here, that s simply not the point of the topic. However, if the game were to be buy to play, maybe there wouldn't be as much inventory clutter as there is now. As it stands, maybe more than 99 % of the dropped items are actually inventory clutter and it doesn't feel good, even as a paying customer with stashes.

The point of the topic is "F2P". No one can argue on the fact that PoE is "F2P". It's simply a fact. Does the game encourage you to pay? Of course. Does your enjoyment of the game increase by paying? Sure, like most F2P games.

Going with the F2P model, you have a choice. You CAN play the whole game for free - if you want. You CAN pay a little bit to increase your enjoyment. But no matter how you spin it, it's still a choice. Maybe someone FEELS like they don't have a choice, but that does not change the fact that you do.

When you see all these cheap people in here, arguing like madmen about $3-$10, do you actually think P2P would be a better business model? Hell, I don't know. Maybe. I think a lot of this... "Cheapness" comes from people reading "F2P" and demand not spending a dime.

That's cheap people. Broke people, on the other hand? That's OK. Not all people, especially in certain parts of the world, can afford those $3-$10. Do they still have a chance to play the game? Yes. They wouldn't if the game was P2P.

No, this whole debate is based off of some stupid, chemical reaction in people's brain when they read "F2P", and this entitlement of having everything for free gets created.

Get real dude

You cant do shit with 3-10 bucks in this game. There is nothing in this game that is less than 5 bucks. If you want 2 extra stash tabs and there is no stash sales going on you have to pay 10 bucks. Inventory and trade is such a huge part of the game. . . shit it may as well be a game itself. Essentially you have to pay to unlock other parts of the game. . . not cosmetics. They made trade to be the ultimate hassle on purpose to make you pay for premium tabs.

Fortnite, Dauntless, CSgo, League, Apex are all games I can progress just as fast as someone who put tons of money into the game without me having to spend a dime. This game on the other hand, there is no way you do endgame delving and mapping with 4 stash tabs without having a stroke.

I enjoy playing this game, and I will probably sink more money into it but i'm not oblivious to the shady practices that GGG seems to run with.

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beaniac wrote:

Look, I like jerking off as much as the next guy, but this thread has gotten a little ridiculous. You should all just stop before you go blind.

You like jerking off next to a guy?

If this game didn't have the inventory tabs as a pay wall, poe would be completely free. But, for now, poe isn't free if you want to play longer than a trail period.

I have never seen a game that claimed to be F2P that didn't create a problem and sold it to you. That being said, poe has been the closest of a free game I have seen so far.

yes it is pay to win due to stash tabs being an absolute must have if you want to progress in the game (maps+) because as of now the insane amount of random items (currency, div cards, essences, fragments, organs and what not) make it almost impossible to play with the 4 tabs given for free
it was possible to play with 4 tabs some leagues ago, but not anymore
yes you can create 100 level 2 chars and deposit items on them but XD doesnt change the fact that u need stash tabs

also idk why they dont award you with some sort of stash tab for ingame achievements such as reaching a certain amount of challenges, would be useful for once instead of crappy looking mtx