Solution to EXP loss/Death Penalty that wont make everyone angry

Yea, the max level was 78 and it wasn't really possible to sustain that with practical play so people had to accept not sitting on max map tiers. But oh, there were a lot of complaints about that system over time. People have commented how the best leagues were the ones liberal with map drops, etc.

I disagree with you on many points, but i definitely see where you are coming from and you have communicated it clearly so i can respect that. I will try to tell you where i am coming from, not to find the one true answer but more to show a different side of things.

I believe map drop-rates should be decoupled from map mods or monster quality in all ways, except map rarity(normal, magic, etc). Map mods should give you increased loot and xp only as the result of risk, but they should not double-dip on punishing you for not being able to handle the tougher mods by both lowing you in tier as well as lowering your rewards, it exponentially scales frustration in doing so and effectively makes the disparity between meta and non-meta much greater.

I also believe the ideal spot when roughly fullclearing maps should be you sitting on 2-3 tiers below max tier with burst into the highest tier maps when rng serves you well. Everyone should naturally be funneled into red maps. I would like for red maps to be a more balanced experience, i think it is a great mistake that the red map mods get so much harder, that only makes endgame performance so unstable and rippy. I plain and simply think red maps are out of control, and explode in power out of nowhere compared to everything you face until them, and even are out of balance for regular life characters even if they are using powerful defensive features.

On the topic of seperation of content, i would like to see a greater seperation between mapping and bossing. I do not want to be forced into the nasty oneshotting bosses just during my regular mapping - at all.

I much more prefer a system like say shaper where you find maps you can run those when you are ready to run bosses, you get fragments and you can do shaper when you are ready for him. Essentially during mapping you find stuff to enter bosses, maps and directions to reach them, that you can do when choosing or you can skip them and sell the maps/Fragments if you know you are not good at bossing. I am not a fan of influences where you need to be forced into deadly bossfights to effectively map in a regular way.

So, maybe you can see, i would like all mapping to be open to generic play. Death penalty changed to allow even bad builds to keep farming maps without getting 100% stuck, if that is what people want to build and play.

And then we have the harder chosen content like bosses, deep delving, etc. Here we have usually 6 portals, and if you can't handle the boss in those portals, just like currently, it doesn't make any sense to try to farm it. I wouldn't mind increased penalty for dying here, say all bosses heal 30% health if you die. This is the punishment and where bad builds don't get a free pass so to speak. I don't think everything should just be freely doable, naturally.

But i do however think death penalty is an abomination and motivation destroyer the way it is, and i don't equate addressing that with allowing any so called half-assed builds to handle anything in game without trying. But it is okay with me if even bad builds can still keep progressing. It will just take them longer time because the builds are bad and not competitive, but they can keep mapping and have fun there without losing will to play characters. That is also where increased total xp required, as well as a changed on death penalty applies, also to make the overall journey to higher level be more steady but possible for not just the very good players and the very good builds but also for average persons who are willing to put into far more time to level up than top players, or those who love a weird build.

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Orbaal wrote:

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veixc wrote:

Its utter bulls**t here. Why cant GGG make a one more league like standard where isnt any death penalty. You can stay in your favourite so called hard and challenging league. This specific league dosent affect your gameplay. GGG can totally eliminate those players connection with your gameplay. The hell with it, im even ready to go p2p version if i get good quality servers and removed the stupid death penalty system.

Because the majority of all players are usually casuals.
Its just the biggest crowd there by a very very large margin, especially if you are catering and marketing towards them.

Compare current distribution between SC leagues vs HC leagues.
Its like 98% playing SC and 2% HC.
Introduce a casual league on top and the distribution would look like:
96% casual league
2% SC
2% HC

Who do you think they are going to balance the game for?
Which crowd do you think will scream the loudest for changes?

So yeah it is going to affect me big time down the road.
Im playing this game (and frankly putting up with a lot of nonsense) because its not casual. The moment its becoming casual, Im out.

So when exp penalty is gone it means that the hardcore league is casual for you? I dont give a f**ck about all the rest of the balance, all the rest is fine and tolerable for me, i can handle all the bugs, disconnects, but i cant handle that if i die by something that i dont even know what hit me, or because of DC it makes the game very pointless. Lets start with that the rest of the game is all same for all leagues exept the very softcore or how you wanna call it has just removed exp penaly and belive me the player base increase will be huge. People learn the game in softcore and later if they understand it they will try HC belive me.

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veixc wrote:

So when exp penalty is gone it means that the hardcore league is casual for you?

I never said that

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veixc wrote:

People learn the game in softcore and later if they understand it they will try HC belive me.

What are they going to learn?
They cant lose XP in casual league. Thats what they will learn.
They have zero incentive to invest into defense at all, so the moment they are playing anything else than casual league, the game will murder them over and over again and the result will be the same as is right now.

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veixc wrote:

...just removed exp penaly and belive me the player base increase will be huge.

Yup thats what Im afraid of.
We had this kind of massive player influx after Blizz fucked up at BlizzCon, plenty D3 players had enough and migrated over here.
Ever since topics like "Why cant we have this or that like game x has" are exploding and changing the game for the worse.


Look, its not that I dislike casual players or something like that.
Also I dont feel elitist or way better than those players and need to bolster my ego - really I dont.
As far as Im concerned everybody is welcome here as long as they dont want to change the game fundamentally.
99% of all games out there across the board are targeting the casual crowd, because its by far the largest crowd - therefore more money.

Conclusion:
If you want a casual ARPG, there are options.
If you want a non-casual ARPG, there arent options (as of now)

Please dont ruin the one game, thats not casual.
The reason why many casuals are here and prefer PoE over other games simply is, the other games cant even deliver 10% of the content you get to enjoy here. I understand that, but that still doesnt mean this game has to be casual too like all the rest.

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Orbaal wrote:

...

Yup thats what Im afraid of.
We had this kind of massive player influx after Blizz fucked up at BlizzCon, plenty D3 players had enough and migrated over here.
Ever since topics like "Why cant we have this or that like game x has" are exploding and changing the game for the worse.


Look, its not that I dislike casual players or something like that.
Also I dont feel elitist or way better than those players and need to bolster my ego - really I dont.
As far as Im concerned everybody is welcome here as long as they dont want to change the game fundamentally.
99% of all games out there across the board are targeting the casual crowd, because its by far the largest crowd - therefore more money.

Conclusion:
If you want a casual ARPG, there are options.
If you want a non-casual ARPG, there arent options (as of now)

Please dont ruin the one game, thats not casual.
The reason why many casuals are here and prefer PoE over other games simply is, the other games cant even deliver 10% of the content you get to enjoy here. I understand that, but that still doesnt mean this game has to be casual too like all the rest.

Same as racists ensure everybody they are not racists, elitists ensure us they are actually not elitists.

All of that hardcore vs casual bullshit is so 2012. This game need casual players to keep going and GGG will have to make the game appealing to them more and more. Unless elitist nerd can fork out those $$$ instead, PoE will be more and more casual friendly. Casual do not ruin the game, they keep it alive.

I'm not arguing existence of death penalty. It is here to stay even if its merits are questionable at best. Hardcore experience is achieved by playing hardcore version of the game where there is no experience penalty.

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Baron01 wrote:

Same as racists ensure everybody they are not racists, elitists ensure us they are actually not elitists.

All of that hardcore vs casual bullshit is so 2012. This game need casual players to keep going and GGG will have to make the game appealing to them more and more. Unless elitist nerd can fork out those $$$ instead, PoE will be more and more casual friendly. Casual do not ruin the game, they keep it alive.

I'm not arguing existence of death penalty. It is here to stay even if its merits are questionable at best. Hardcore experience is achieved by playing hardcore version of the game where there is no experience penalty.

Go tell D3.

They relied on casuals an now its dead.



Your racism remark btw is so uncalled for and pointless, I dont even know how to express how dumb it is. But thx for letting me know how you think, trying to win arguments with racism remarks... Classy
-> Ignore

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Orbaal wrote:

Go tell D3.

They relied on casuals an now its dead.



Your racism remark btw is so uncalled for and pointless, I dont even know how to express how dumb it is. But thx for letting me know how you think, trying to win arguments with racism remarks... Classy
-> Ignore

Your reading comprehension amazes me. Just to clarify, I have not called you nor insinuated that you are a racist. I merely pointed to a behavior where people often preface their speech by claiming they are not something--be it racists or elitists--and than their speech is a complete opposite, ie. it uses racist dog-whistles or came out as elitist, which was your case.

The difference between D3 and PoE is their business model. PoE must deliver new content regularly in order to attract new players or retain old ones because these players and their micro-transaction purchases are needed to sustain GGG. PoE would be equally dead if there is no real new content for the game for 6 years (ie. release of ROS in March 2014).

I'm not arguing whether PoE is better or worse game than D3. This is addressed by the fact I'm discussing this here on PoE forums and the fact I still play PoE nearly 8 years after its initial release while I have not touched D3 for years.

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Baron01 wrote:

Your reading comprehension amazes me. Just to clarify, I have not called you nor insinuated that you are a racist. I merely pointed to a behavior where people often preface their speech by claiming they are not something--be it racists or elitists--and than their speech is a complete opposite, ie. it uses racist dog-whistles or came out as elitist, which was your case.

You could have called me an elitist and I wouldnt have complained at all. Thats fine.
Comparing my behavior to racists isnt. In no way, shape or form and you wont be able to talk your way out the mess you produced.

So F right off.

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Orbaal wrote:

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Baron01 wrote:

Your reading comprehension amazes me. Just to clarify, I have not called you nor insinuated that you are a racist. I merely pointed to a behavior where people often preface their speech by claiming they are not something--be it racists or elitists--and than their speech is a complete opposite, ie. it uses racist dog-whistles or came out as elitist, which was your case.

You could have called me an elitist and I wouldnt have complained at all. Thats fine.
Comparing my behavior to racists isnt. In no way, shape or form and you wont be able to talk your way out the mess you produced.

So F right off.

Racist and elitist usually share similar behaviors IME. I dont think he meant to insinuate that you were racist though.

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Fruz wrote:

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Redthorne82 wrote:

I'm done playing this game. I don't have time, and has Fruz has stated repeatedly - I'm not nearly enough of a basement-dwelling troglodyte to play this game.

You have a lvl 97 and a lvl 98 character, you're waaay past the casual type of gamer.

Happen to notice those were on Standard? They were from older leagues where I had more time...and I continued to level them in Standard.

The point is, for me, that leagues are basically beta testing mechanics for the core game later on, then maybe leveling something closer to 100 in standard after the league ends. Yuck.

**EDIT** I'm not saying I've never had fun either. Maybe the content is a combination of too easy and too long for me. Sirus and band of merry numbskulls weren't really a challenge for me. Sure, I was using my level 98 in standard for it, but the mechanics weren't challenging. I also feel like just flat buffing HP of bosses and such is so obnoxiously lazy.

Honestly, now that I think of it - maybe shortening the end game grind but making it harder is what I'm looking for. Hmmmm...

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Orbaal wrote:

The reason why many casuals are here and prefer PoE over other games simply is, the other games cant even deliver 10% of the content you get to enjoy here. I understand that, but that still doesnt mean this game has to be casual too like all the rest.

Well, most of the casual leave the game very quickly and they leave to other games it means there are games that can offer something more than POE. Like you said on earlier post the game has 96 prc casual players (where the hell that number but well let it be then) it means the whole game stands up on casual players.

Also if you said that the exp penalty loss dosent affect your gameplay on HC, i dont get what is your problem is it elitist e-peen or something like that.

As you posted thet casuals wont learn anything if the exp penalty is gone, well i didnt know that the exp penalty is the thing that holds all casual players back to kill Sirius, kill uber elder and so on, they cant kill them because of exp penalty. Good good go on sir, its just absurd.