D3 OR PoE

"

lopen wrote:

If you thnk D3 is going to be as good as D2 forget it. I have been playing D3 beta for a bit and it dont begin to be as good as D2 on a scale of 1 to 10 I gave it a 5 I may or may not buy D3 and play it but I like POE so much better than D3.

I give it 11..now what? :)

"

lopen wrote:

If you thnk D3 is going to be as good as D2 forget it. I have been playing D3 beta for a bit and it dont begin to be as good as D2 on a scale of 1 to 10 I gave it a 5 I may or may not buy D3 and play it but I like POE so much better than D3.

You're comparing an entire game to 13 levels (with content only going to about level 8) of a beta.

Yup, makes sense.

I bet if you compared D2 going up to Blood Raven to D3 beta you'd have a better comparison.

@Bunzi: Your statement has several fallacies that I want to discuss, as an example of why I hate online forums, particularly threads like this one. People can say whatever the hell they want, and many often actually believe it. I don't mean to come off as a jackass, but let's take a closer look at what you said, shall we?

"

Buzi wrote:

I have great worries that the game was dumbed down
too far, for the console crowd in particular. I'm talking
about the fact they limited the concurrent skills to merely six. left and right mouse and 4 others.

In comparison, how many viable active skills does a PoE hero use through Merciless and Chaos, not including auras or buffs? 2? 3? 4? Your point is moot.

"

Buzi wrote:

One of the joys of D1 and D2 later on was having
so many concurrent skills to use. I usually played
sorceress's and Amazons. It wasn't uncommon for me
to have to have on hand 8 or more skills to cope with Hell mode mobs. I think in D2 we could have upwards of 12 available if we chose. It was a bunch.

The fact that you say something like this suggests one of two things: 1) You never actually played D2 hell-mode, or 2) you haven't played it in a very long time and simply look past on it with shaded nostalgic glasses.

Before I go further, I want to reiterate that we are discussing builds which are only viable through Hell. People think that you can mix-and-match skills and still kill mobs. People who say that never led an 8-player game through Act 5 hell. No, following around a Hammerdin or Blizzball Sorceress Bot does not count. If he or she played Single player, this is all the more poignant because good gear is much harder to obtain, which negates even more builds.

Diablo 2 had 7 classes. Each class had only a handful of builds that were viable in hell. As I recall, the Paladin and Sorceress had the highest number. To use your own example, lets briefly discuss the Amazon and Sorceress.

1) The Amazon had 2 viable builds: Bowazon and Javazon.

The Bowazon used 2 active skills. One of the following: Multishot or Strafe (Guided Arrow does not count because it is a PVP skill); along with 1 elemental damage spell: Freezing Arrow or Immolation Arrow/Explosive Arrow.

The Javazon also used 2 active skills: Charged Strike and Lightning Fury. Her passives do not count because they are passive. Valkyrie is arguable whether it counts or not. The Dopplezon is a possible 3rd skill, but most Amazons rarely use it because (A) it took precious skill points away from other skills, and (B) it simply isn't strong enough to help much beyond Nightmare.

Summary: The Amazon uses at most 4 skills, 2 damage skills plus Dopplezon and Valkyrie.

2) The Sorceress has the following viable builds: Meteorb, Pure Fire, pure Cold, Blizzball and Lightning. Buff skills such as Chilling Armor or Energy Shield do not count. Teleport counts because it provides necessary positioning and escaping.

Meteorb. You max out Meteor and Frozen Orb. Use Frozen Orb to slow the mobs, follow up with a devastating meteor to their face. Solid, popular build. 3 active skills including Teleport.

Blizzball. Focus on Blizzard for fire immune mobs, and Fireball for cold immune mobs. Simple and straightforward. 3 active skills including Teleport.

Lightning. Lightning, Chain Lightning, with a possible Thunder Storm (subpar). Insane damage potential, the god of PVP, but limited in PVE because 1/3 of the mobs were lightning immune. 3-4 active skills including Teleport.

Pure Fire. Focus on Fireball, Meteor, or Firewall (Hydra became semi-decent after patch 1.13). Awesome against Andariel, but limited like Lightning because so many hell mobs are immune to fire. 3-4 active skills including Teleport.

Pure Cold. Focus on Blizzard, Glacial Spike, or possibly Frozen Orb (very supbar damage). Kill Mephisto without batting an eye, but like Lightning and Fire, too many immunities. 2-4 skills including Teleport.

Any viable Sorceress build used at most 4 active skills.

Now lets briefly move onto Diablo 3. Each class has 6 active skills. Each skill is viable all the way from Normal through Inferno. Additionally, each skill has 6 possible runes. Math is not my forte, and it could be off, but that's 6^6 possible builds, for each class. 46,656 viable builds for each class.

That does not include the plethora of other customization options that Diablo 3 offers, such as Passive Skills, Followers, Gems, Crafting, etc. etc.

"

Buzi wrote:

There are aspects of this PoE that are more true
to what I loved about D2 than i see in game play vids of Diablo 3.

Such as?

"

Buzi wrote:

Diablo 3 Is the unknown to me at this stage.

I fear it is too dumbed down to do anything than other
to anger me greatly.

How so? So far, it seems that all of your arguments are based on fabrication or misunderstanding.

"

Buzi wrote:

This game, isn't pointed at the drooling console market so it has the potential to return to D2 more cloesly.

Okay, I agree that the new D3 skill interface really sucks. It definitely appears like it is geared towards console gamers, which I'm against. A PC game should be made for PC gamers.

I also understand the nostalgia, but Diablo 2 is 12 years old. Looking at it openly and honestly, it had a lot of problems, and many of its systems are severely out-dated. One of the many concerns I have about PoE is that it resembles D2 too much.

This very long-winded post is merely to convey the fact that many people use misinformation, nostalgia, or just plain ignorance as a basis for their dislike or hesitation about Diablo 3. I don't care if you don't like Diablo 3. But at least have valid reason.

TL;DR: I'll see you on May 15th.

"

Tommerbob wrote:

1) The Amazon had 2 viable builds: Bowazon and Javazon.

Tell that to my passive dodge/crit strike/crushing blow/deadly strike/Zeal sword-slinging Amazon from hardcore. She hit level 80 with no problems whatsoever and only died because I got over-confident against Iron maiden using Berserk via a Passioned Phase Blade. If you don't think 80 qualifies as proof of 'viable' then I guess you're right.

I think it is true that Diablo 2 was prone to cookie-cutter builds being over powered, but a lot of people play these games to forge their own way. I loved my inferno Sorc, but it never really worked like I wanted it to during mid-late Nightmare. The impression I get from Diablo 3 is there there won't me much room for niche builds (I may be wrong!). You, as a player, won't really have the sense of forging your own path (the way skill trees do). I it is not necessarily worse, but I did get a sinking feeling several times playing the Diablo 3 demo. Once was when I realized I would never need more than one of each class.

"

CharanJaydemyr wrote:

Tell that to my passive dodge/crit strike/crushing blow/deadly strike/Zeal sword-slinging Amazon from hardcore. She hit level 80 with no problems whatsoever and only died because I got over-confident against Iron maiden using Berserk via a Passioned Phase Blade. If you don't think 80 qualifies as proof of 'viable' then I guess you're right.

True, I left out possible runeword builds, but those only reinforce my point: Each build uses only a handful of skills which are based around specific stat/gear builds.

While runewords provided more diverse builds, it was one of those systems from D2 that almost single-handedly broke the game.

Also, this:

"

alcovitch wrote:

"

lopen wrote:

If you thnk D3 is going to be as good as D2 forget it. I have been playing D3 beta for a bit and it dont begin to be as good as D2 on a scale of 1 to 10 I gave it a 5 I may or may not buy D3 and play it but I like POE so much better than D3.

You're comparing an entire game to 13 levels (with content only going to about level 8) of a beta.

Yup, makes sense.

I bet if you compared D2 going up to Blood Raven to D3 beta you'd have a better comparison.

"

Tommerbob wrote:

This very long-winded post is merely to convey the fact that many people use misinformation, nostalgia, or just plain ignorance as a basis for their dislike or hesitation about Diablo 3. I don't care if you don't like Diablo 3. But at least have valid reason.

TL;DR: I'll see you on May 15th.

I'd say that sounds about right. Of the more intangible things that PoE gets right by me, playing masterfully to my nostalgia is definitely in the top 3. I feel more nostalgic toward PoE than I do toward D3 or Torchlight, for instance.

It doesn't hurt that even at this early stage PoE is a tonne of fun. Truthfully, considering how much of the game is missing, it's a mystery how the game can be so enjoyable!

I played the everloving crap out the D2 stress test. Seriously.

A lot more than I did the D3 beta.

That's probably just because of lack of choice back then, but there was Darkstone and Nox, both excellent options. So maybe not entirely that.

D3 beta isn't much of a beta which I don't see why they bothered patching it multiple times.

That beta has nearly put me off buying the game but I may have to since all my friends will probably buy it regardless of quality.

"

nKSharp wrote:

D3 beta isn't much of a beta which I don't see why they bothered patching it multiple times.

No, you have it backwards. If they didn't bother to change anything, that would make it a pointless beta.