Why Melee will always suck

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Kwonryu wrote:

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casval776 wrote:

What this game needs is an IQ test for the forums.
I swear to God if I see another person refusing to use Ground Slam or Lightning Strike on their melee toons because it doesn't fit a definition, I'm gonna scream.

People are not using those because those attacks are not melee.

When people talk Melee, they mean being up close and personal with the monsters, adding alot more risk than if being out of range of the monster's melee attacks.

Range 4-6.

If you can use an attack that hits the enemy but the enemy cannot hit you, then it is not in melee-range.

And those people are dumb to hold dearly on to this definition. If you want an effective melee character, use whatever advantages they have and not try to play a different game.

I would like to see them add flat +HP bonuses to the Increased Melee Physical Damage nodes. Even if only like +5HP on each. That would be a good start.

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VictorDoom wrote:

Vulnerability increases physical damage, read the gem first, its better than any other elemental curse.

physical damage is better than elemental, physical gear is very hard and very expensive to get, that is why elemental is preferred and why its considered better, because of the ease of geting the gear and because elemental reflect is way easier to handle than physical reflect.

Anyone who has been playing the game for a while and has a basic understanding of how damage works agrees with the fact that if you do 20k physical dps you are WAY better than someone who does 20k elemental dps, because of how armor works.

Melee dps is not the problem, i said this a lot of times now and ill keep saying it, the problem with melee is that mobs and bosses do too much damage in the endgame, that is why ranged is considered OP because it rarely gets hit, has the same amount of defensive are a melee, and decent dps too, melees have the same stats as a ranged but they have to get close and get hit by bosses that take 2-3k life in 1 hit with max rez and big armor.

Yes it does.. but the second part with shield recharge delay... that's the wtf part.

Physical dmg is better that's why u run ele ranger urself ;)

It is true that's dps is not rly the problem although it could be improved with some warcries. I hope in the future devs will improve melees survivability with good melee only nodes etc.

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VolcanoElixir wrote:

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Kwonryu wrote:

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casval776 wrote:

What this game needs is an IQ test for the forums.
I swear to God if I see another person refusing to use Ground Slam or Lightning Strike on their melee toons because it doesn't fit a definition, I'm gonna scream.

People are not using those because those attacks are not proper melee.

When people talk Melee, they mean being up close and personal with the monsters, adding alot more risk than if being out of range of the monster's melee attacks.

Range 4-6.

If you can use an attack that hits the enemy but the enemy cannot hit you, then it is not in melee-range.

And those people are dumb to hold dearly on to this definition. If you want an effective melee character, use whatever advantages they have and not try to play a different game.

Poppycock.

No, they are not dumb, but brave Warriors in comparison to the limpwristed fairies with bows and staves that dare not face death up close.

Melee-combat is a sacred thing, only for the most genetically gifted and brave warriors and not for the faint of heart.

Only the most strong and bold warriors dare to be inside the midst of battle, which makes prevailing after such an ordeal so much more rewarding.

Wielding a Weapon made for cleaving limbs / crushing skulls and then unleashing rays of lightning from a safe location is not the way of the true warrior.
That is not the way of a true God of the Arena.

Live by the Sword, and Die by the Sword.

Summary:

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Chris wrote:

Survivability changes are being handled separately from the addition of the new supports.

^ post above is too geeky >.<

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Drumheller wrote:

My first character is a two-handed melee Templar. He's currently level 54 and facing Piety in Cruel.

Get to some real content as in lvl 72+ maps and get hit for 50% of ur 6k hp pool per hit, then get back to us with melee input again.

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_Seze_ wrote:

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VictorDoom wrote:

Vulnerability increases physical damage, read the gem first, its better than any other elemental curse.

physical damage is better than elemental, physical gear is very hard and very expensive to get, that is why elemental is preferred and why its considered better, because of the ease of geting the gear and because elemental reflect is way easier to handle than physical reflect.

Anyone who has been playing the game for a while and has a basic understanding of how damage works agrees with the fact that if you do 20k physical dps you are WAY better than someone who does 20k elemental dps, because of how armor works.

Melee dps is not the problem, i said this a lot of times now and ill keep saying it, the problem with melee is that mobs and bosses do too much damage in the endgame, that is why ranged is considered OP because it rarely gets hit, has the same amount of defensive are a melee, and decent dps too, melees have the same stats as a ranged but they have to get close and get hit by bosses that take 2-3k life in 1 hit with max rez and big armor.

Yes it does.. but the second part with shield recharge delay... that's the wtf part.

Physical dmg is better that's why u run ele ranger urself ;)

It is true that's dps is not rly the problem although it could be improved with some warcries. I hope in the future devs will improve melees survivability with good melee only nodes etc.

physical damage is better, physical gear is hard to find, propel dont have good physical gear so they say phys is shit, and just go ele cause ele gear is everywhere.

And quite the contrary mate, i have the only guide for Pure physical ranger up in the ranger area.

On the main thing, the damage problem of the mobs/bosses is posted in the comprehensive feedback thread in my behalf, so the devs will read it and lets hop they do something about it.

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VictorDoom wrote:

Anyone who has been playing the game for a while and has a basic understanding of how damage works agrees with the fact that if you do 20k physical dps you are WAY better than someone who does 20k elemental dps, because of how armor works.

Melee dps is not the problem, i said this a lot of times now and ill keep saying it, the problem with melee is that mobs and bosses do too much damage in the endgame, that is why ranged is considered OP because it rarely gets hit, has the same amount of defensive are a melee, and decent dps too, melees have the same stats as a ranged but they have to get close and get hit by bosses that take 2-3k life in 1 hit with max rez and big armor.

I agree 100%. Damage spike is unmanageable for melee builds. Cyclone could have migrated some of the damage spikes due to its mobility but desync and large mana requirement killed it.

It doesn't help when the developers nerfed granite flask because you got a handful of range players think it was OP.

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Drumheller wrote:

Why change it at all? The fact of life is that ranged combat is superior to melee combat. If that were not the case, we'd still be fighting wars with swords and maces instead of guns and missiles.

Plenty of people claim that Hardcore is the true way to play. Well, why not leave melee as is and let people that figure out how to survive end game as a melee character have other things to brag about?

GGG can also create a new class called AwesomeMelee. That class takes no damage and kills everything with one hit. Then people can stop crying.


BTW, I started playing PoE in January in the Open Beta. My first character is a two-handed melee Templar. He's currently level 54 and facing Piety in Cruel.

Are we really making real life comparisons to a game where I can shoot lightning from my fingers, throw fire balls, and summon zombies? Herp derp. Why should we change it? Because it's not balanced and makes melee pointless, duh. It's a game, not real life. Balance encourages variety. If ranged is so superior then we should all go around mowing down undead with AKs. AK-47s are most certainly superior to bows. Oh wait, that wouldn't be Path of Exile. Bad argument is bad.

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VictorDoom wrote:

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_Seze_ wrote:

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VictorDoom wrote:

Vulnerability increases physical damage, read the gem first, its better than any other elemental curse.

physical damage is better than elemental, physical gear is very hard and very expensive to get, that is why elemental is preferred and why its considered better, because of the ease of geting the gear and because elemental reflect is way easier to handle than physical reflect.

Anyone who has been playing the game for a while and has a basic understanding of how damage works agrees with the fact that if you do 20k physical dps you are WAY better than someone who does 20k elemental dps, because of how armor works.

Melee dps is not the problem, i said this a lot of times now and ill keep saying it, the problem with melee is that mobs and bosses do too much damage in the endgame, that is why ranged is considered OP because it rarely gets hit, has the same amount of defensive are a melee, and decent dps too, melees have the same stats as a ranged but they have to get close and get hit by bosses that take 2-3k life in 1 hit with max rez and big armor.

Yes it does.. but the second part with shield recharge delay... that's the wtf part.

Physical dmg is better that's why u run ele ranger urself ;)

It is true that's dps is not rly the problem although it could be improved with some warcries. I hope in the future devs will improve melees survivability with good melee only nodes etc.

physical damage is better, physical gear is hard to find, propel dont have good physical gear so they say phys is shit, and just go ele cause ele gear is everywhere.

And quite the contrary mate, i have the only guide for Pure physical ranger up in the ranger area.

On the main thing, the damage problem of the mobs/bosses is posted in the comprehensive feedback thread in my behalf, so the devs will read it and lets hop they do something about it.

And on top of that its really boring to play physical. You literally spam your Cleave/Dual Double Strike and thats it for the most part.

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Drumheller wrote:

BTW, I started playing PoE in January in the Open Beta. My first character is a two-handed melee Templar. He's currently level 54 and facing Piety in Cruel.

Wowee level 54, at Piety in Cruel, perhaps you can share some tips with us? Please?

Or perhaps you could kill Piety, get to Merciless, go through all that, 3 more acts, get to maps, the endgame content, with the enemy damage relative to your defense increasing rapidly this entire time. Then get back to us on how easy it is and how spoiled we are.

A lot of solutions posted in this thread are things that will apply to ranged as well, and the melee exclusive keystones will make the passive system which at first glance is incredibly deep, and has now been exposed as badly balanced enough to actually be bland in practise, even blander. This is a pretty difficult problem to fix isn't it. :/

A huge part of the problem is also desync, which may be impossible for them to fix at this point depending on how the engine is designed, or at the very least require an insane amount of effort. Which is funny because lag compensation as a multiplayer gaming problem was solved over a decade ago. It's even been done effectively in fighting games now, which are FAR harder to do this for as the gameplay itself is linked to the frames of animation, with 60 of these frames per second. But they can keep that in sync very well now with the GGPO stuff.