Why Melee will always suck

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VictorDoom wrote:

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Kiran04 wrote:

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Mylon wrote:

The way resists work is too uninteresting. It's too easy to hit resist caps and thus everyone is going to do it so the monsters are just going to deal the same amount of damage to everyone. There isn't much one can do to really emphasize tanking.

On the flip side, the way armor works is over-complicated. Why are resists so simplified when armor isn't? That just makes it impossible to balance the two. The same goes for the damage types they're applied too. With our current system, elemental and physical will never be balanced. Elemental will always be better.

Apart from the fact that it wont,and its not better, the way armor works on players works the same on mobs, you know you get a big physical hit on you and it completely ignores your armor?
The same for mobs, you do big physical damage their armor ignores it, that is why physical is better than elemental, mobs have no mitigation against it, where as with ele almost every mob is resistant to a type of element.

Elemental is considered better because its MUCH easier to get elemental gear than physical gear, good physical gear is rare and very expensive when it does pop up for sale.

Physical has a massive downside though(besides the fact that good physical gear is very rare), reflect aura, when you reflect physical damage, armor works the way it works... if you do big damage it does fuck all for mitigation and you die.

This another discussion though, the main problem with melee is mob and boss damage, thats it.

You are mostly right, but i think you forget some points. Curses gives a great debuff practically it works like a multiplicative buff for your attacks (when it not overcapped). In addition you can use "penetration" supportgems, and dont forget the status aligment. Shock multiplicateds your damage, Burn gives you an additional percentage damage and froze/chill is a stong defensive stat. You see its not so inferior as you might think and it has much more synergies with other supportgems and mechanics, as plain physical.
For reflective mobs, it seems that you only can take 20% of your max life as damage. That means you can only 5shot yourself. Only because of this mechanic i choose Armour/Evasion/Block because you can evade reflected damage and you can block it before it applies to armour/hp.

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Sammael wrote:

what this game needs is even more late game items for melee only

and damage reduction in Str Gems
like cyclone instead of skill area of effect in %quality
how about damage reduction per %quality

What this game needs is an IQ test for the forums.
I swear to God if I see another person refusing to use Ground Slam or Lightning Strike on their melee toons because it doesn't fit a definition, I'm gonna scream.

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casval776 wrote:

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Sammael wrote:

what this game needs is even more late game items for melee only

and damage reduction in Str Gems
like cyclone instead of skill area of effect in %quality
how about damage reduction per %quality

What this game needs is an IQ test for the forums.
I swear to God if I see another person refusing to use Ground Slam or Lightning Strike on their melee toons because it doesn't fit a definition, I'm gonna scream.

And some people that think you should use ranged skills to play melee needs to be lobotomized.

Cleave is melee, GodSlam is semi melee, Lightning stike totally ranged :P. I can do any map solo with GS mara. But in party melee becomes somewhat useless, althou I love ele rangers in party who shock stack and then I can slam doze mobs back to the stone age.

i didnt read the whole thread and i´m not sure if my idea wasnt alredy picked up by someone

i think the biggest problem for melee are the big "1hit" (or nearly 1hit) kills
so how about a keystone that says soemthing liek

"you can only use meele attack/weapons and support skills (like auras or totems,spelltotem doesnt work with ranged spells anymore like icespear but still with summons/novas)
you cant be critical hit,but still be ignited/chilled/frozen (not sure if schock should be included)"
and maybe a bit armor on top of it

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ciel289 wrote:

so how about a keystone that says soemthing liek

you cant be critical hit

Errrr we already get a -30% crit mitigation... The problem is melees get hit TOO OFTEN with ZERO extra mitigation as you have noticed. We need something like:

Delayed reaction keystone
Halved energy shield and quadruple energy shield recovery delay.
Halved regeneration rate for Health and Mana
Flasks heals at halved speed and twice the duration.
Leeches application rate cap at 10% instead of 20%.
Flasks do not stack and there's a 1 second delay before the next one is applied.
Hits only take up to 40% of your maximum HP+ES initially. The rest is applied as degeneration. You can lose up to 50% of your CURRENT HP+ES via this degeneration per second.

This keystone allows the character to survive fatal attacks but takes him/her our of combat for a long while unless proper measures are taken (i.e. vitality/regen totem/flasks). It still places him/her at high risks of following up hits.

Let's say you have 4000 HP /w 2.5% regen (100HP/s) and vaal lag smack you for 8k damage after mitigation.
You activate a flask that heal 1200 HP over 8 second. Due to your delayed reaction, it heals over 16 seconds instead, or 75HP/s

0s: Takes 1600 initial damage. HP: 2400 and queued degen: 6400
1s: Degen 1200 Regen 175. HP: 1375 and queued degen: 5200
2s: Degen 688 Regen 175. HP: 687 and queued degen: 4512
3s: Degen 344 Regen 175. HP: 518 and queued degen: 4168
...

There also no good curses for melee that increase dps. There's elem weakness\and curce for every element that give awesome bonuses to ur type of damage... all have is Vulnerability... wich reduces shield cooldown delay----> WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..... if melee would have a curse that was like 30% melee dmg taken\30-50% armor reduction etc.

We can have a variety of warcryes that say increase out melee dps ~30%-50% for 10 sec etc. And so much more good stuff, but no.. all we get is junk skills etc.. Total bs.

I am very frustrated with devs harry potter\legolas love agenda.

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casval776 wrote:

What this game needs is an IQ test for the forums.
I swear to God if I see another person refusing to use Ground Slam or Lightning Strike on their melee toons because it doesn't fit a definition, I'm gonna scream.

People are not using those because those attacks are not proper melee.

When people talk Melee, they mean being up close and personal with the monsters, adding alot more risk than if being out of range of the monster's melee attacks.

Range 4-6.

If you can use an attack that hits the enemy but the enemy cannot hit you, then it is not in melee-range.

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_Seze_ wrote:

There also no good curses for melee that increase dps. There's elem weakness\and curce for every element that give awesome bonuses to ur type of damage... all have is Vulnerability... wich reduces shield cooldown delay----> WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..... if melee would have a curse that was like 30% melee dmg taken\30-50% armor reduction etc.

We can have a variety of warcryes that say increase out melee dps ~30%-50% for 10 sec etc. And so much more good stuff, but no.. all we get is junk skills etc.. Total bs.

I am very frustrated with devs harry potter\legolas love agenda.

Vulnerability increases physical damage, read the gem first, its better than any other elemental curse.

physical damage is better than elemental, physical gear is very hard and very expensive to get, that is why elemental is preferred and why its considered better, because of the ease of geting the gear and because elemental reflect is way easier to handle than physical reflect.

Anyone who has been playing the game for a while and has a basic understanding of how damage works agrees with the fact that if you do 20k physical dps you are WAY better than someone who does 20k elemental dps, because of how armor works.

Melee dps is not the problem, i said this a lot of times now and ill keep saying it, the problem with melee is that mobs and bosses do too much damage in the endgame, that is why ranged is considered OP because it rarely gets hit, has the same amount of defensive are a melee, and decent dps too, melees have the same stats as a ranged but they have to get close and get hit by bosses that take 2-3k life in 1 hit with max rez and big armor.

Why change it at all? The fact of life is that ranged combat is superior to melee combat. If that were not the case, we'd still be fighting wars with swords and maces instead of guns and missiles.

Plenty of people claim that Hardcore is the true way to play. Well, why not leave melee as is and let people that figure out how to survive end game as a melee character have other things to brag about?

GGG can also create a new class called AwesomeMelee. That class takes no damage and kills everything with one hit. Then people can stop crying.


BTW, I started playing PoE in January in the Open Beta. My first character is a two-handed melee Templar. He's currently level 54 and facing Piety in Cruel.