PoE Real money pros and cons

Scumbag RMT is scumbag.


Lol did u had to study to get ur job or did u bribe ur interviewer to get it?

Lottsa good thoughts here. I have to touch apon one post, sorry I can't recall the posters name, the bottom line was this ( correct me if I'm wrong):

If I plays hundreds of hours it doesn't make me more skilled in the game it just makes me a dude who played the game a long ass time.

Which I understand the point but, I am of the first generation who grew up with video games since I could basically walk and talk (had the Atari 2600 and the NES) at 6 years old or so. Now, my point is, when I was younger, a video game was just a game, just a waste of time in terms of doing something meaningful. This is how it was in peoples eyes.

We are in a transitional period were the way games themselves are perceived is changing. Right now the words "real money" and games (aside from purchasing the actual game ) clash... it seems wrong.

But, what makes a game more pure than any other hobby were getting ahead by money is acceptable ? Games are becoming more of a normal way of life for ppl therefore companies are rising up and offering services based around them. This happens in every walk of life and it's actually just business. It just feels weird and wrong in the context of games right now.


on a slightly different note

As for me, I'm an English teacher and I don't have much real money to put into a game even if wanted too, but let me say this, if you enjoy the game enough, you wont care who gets what how. I know this cause I play D2 mods which are free and have 10X more options, mob variety, trinkets and uniques than all these games PoE, D3,T2 combined... and enjoy the mods more. Same with vanilla D2, played it when it was active online for the years it was active. The same RM shit went on. I hardly noticed cause I was so addicted to the game and having fun. I wouldn't care if someone bought $1000 in SoJs and one shot everything in he game, I'd be like "hmm. that was cool." next Cow run.

"

Charan wrote:

Can't say I disagree, but I'm trying to decide if my Diamond Kiwi, which is a virtual commodity totally contained within the confines of another commodity that cost far less (the game itself is free, after all) falls under this.

Or if you silver kiwi does.

If not, perhaps it'd be best to stipulate that you're speaking specifically of in-game items that have some impact on the game itself. This is implicit in your 'made worthless by changes to the balance or stats' given that the kiwi is already worthless in that regard.

So if we're talking purely cosmetically, which is more tragic, I wonder: $100 for a little bird that does nothing in-game, or $100 for a costume for a character in a game? Because until I found PoE/GGG, I would have laughed myself stupid at the thought of paying that much money for a character's costume, even in a free to play game.

What's the difference though? This is, of course, hypothetical: we didn't really do it for the kiwi, we did it to support GGG. Perhaps I felt no need to support, say, gPotato, even though they also offered their game for free and relied on a cash shop for income.

...And here's where I can surprise even myself and realise why this is all totally on-topic: that other game also had blatant pay to win items in its cash shop. The game got some money out of me but never on a $100 item that did NOTHING, let alone a $1000 one.

Charan, I have been meaning to ask; when you summon your kiwi do you get a whole herd of them following you as some deranged blinged out swarm?


On Topic: I have no problem with a RMAH in a game designed and supported for it. GGG decided not to, and personally, I find that refreshing. Frankly, if that is important to you, there is already a game that caters to it. =shrug=

"

piscator123 wrote:

Scumbag RMT is scumbag.


Lol did u had to study to get ur job or did u bribe ur interviewer to get it?

You realize, I don't use any RMT service in PoE, right? I'd prefer a trusted and sanctioned service if I'm going to use one.

Why are you turning towards personal attacks, again?
I see you are a diamond supporter. If that money gave you something in game that did offer advantage, like say, your kiwi picked up orbs, or offered 50% IIR, would you get mad, or ask for a refund, or for that feature to be removed?

Getting the job involved a long series of tests, and several technical interviews before they made an offer. a good 6 hours, total.

The freelance job does involve spending money to be better at. I have 5 displays, so I can quickly research and hook up multiple machines in the same area, while still using my machine for research and quick tool download and dispersal.

It also requires a good car, and I dress professionally to improve customer confidence. I spend more money on honing my razors because I shave more, etc.
Once again, money makes for victory in real life, a lot.

But most importantly, why did you turn this into personal attacks, instead of.... reasonable debate?

"

Stcecil wrote:

Lottsa good thoughts here. I have to touch apon one post, sorry I can't recall the posters name, the bottom line was this ( correct me if I'm wrong):

If I plays hundreds of hours it doesn't make me more skilled in the game it just makes me a dude who played the game a long ass time.

Which I understand the point but, I am of the first generation who grew up with video games since I could basically walk and talk (had the Atari 2600 and the NES) at 6 years old or so. Now, my point is, when I was younger, a video game was just a game, just a waste of time in terms of doing something meaningful. This is how it was in peoples eyes.

We are in a transitional period were the way games themselves are perceived is changing. Right now the words "real money" and games (aside from purchasing the actual game ) clash... it seems wrong.

But, what makes a game more pure than any other hobby were getting ahead by money is acceptable ? Games are becoming more of a normal way of life for ppl therefore companies are rising up and offering services based around them. This happens in every walk of life and it's actually just business. It just feels weird and wrong in the context of games right now.


on a slightly different note

As for me, I'm an English teacher and I don't have much real money to put into a game even if wanted too, but let me say this, if you enjoy the game enough, you wont care who gets what how. I know this cause I play D2 mods which are free and have 10X more options, mob variety, trinkets and uniques than all these games PoE, D3,T2 combined... and enjoy the mods more. Same with vanilla D2, played it when it was active online for the years it was active. The same RM shit went on. I hardly noticed cause I was so addicted to the game and having fun. I wouldn't care if someone bought $1000 in SoJs and one shot everything in he game, I'd be like "hmm. that was cool." next Cow run.

Great points!
I differentiate the two, between online gaming, and console style gaming. I'm appalled by the offerings in dead space 3 of real money for better weapons. That game, even on hard, wasn't that bad. at all. and the point of the game is the atmosphere and skill required to advance.
And I love skill gaming, and retro gaming. Meatboy is amazing, have done full-clear super ghouls and ghosts on real console, etc.

But I differentiate between "playing this game a lot makes me better" and "Playing this game a lot gets me more in game currency to get more powerful stuff."

I find the grind, versus real advancement, immensely difficult to quantify and set and end-point for, but in a game like this, it clearly gets to a waiting game: waiting for the right items, waiting to drop an item you can sell for enough currency for the right items, etc.
I wouldn't mind streamlining that process, either.

If 20 bucks bought me end-game, end all, perfect equipment, I'd be bored. Fast. but if 20 bucks bought me say, something fun, that didn't give me an unfair advantage besides time spent, and facilitated faster movement up the ranks towards end game, hey, that'd be cool. high level maps eat me alive right now.

but again, so much of this is in the eye of the beholder. I love GGG and this game. that doesn't mean I want them to offer pay2win, but you can easily differentiate an auction house, and truly, real money trade, from pay to win. Games like gunz the duel come to mind: paid for gear was hundreds of times stronger, and easier to equip than normal, found gear. If you pay, you instantly get elite gear status. That sucks. D3 had some of the same facets, but at the very least, these were created in the confines of the game: Currency earned, or farmed.

Duping sucks, for sure, and that's what kills economy. Bot farming does, too.

But players selling player found things to players? That doesn't kill anything. It's difficult to argue it does without bias, but who am I to say?

There´s no way of ever stopping this.

1. Trade with ingame items is a billion dollar business. There was an article about that in Wall street Journal back in 2008, and it already was a 3-4 billion dollar business then. Today it may be even much more.

2. There have been other billion dollar companies like Blizzard, trying to stop that, meanwhile they gave up.

So everybody who expects a small indie venture like GGG to be able to stop RMT is completely unrealistic.

It´s similiar to the war on drugs the United States started some years ago, nice idea, but they cannot win. As long as someone is willing to pay for a merchandise or a service there WILL BE someone willing to deliver. Always.

And selling ingame items for real money has a major advantage over selling drugs. It is perfectly legal.

The only way to have a game free of RMT is to have a game free of trade, which nobody would ever want to play.

Also one thing to consider. RMT companies do not print the money themselves, those billions of dollars come from gamers, willing to give their money for an advantage in a game. Now do the math, how small may the percentage of players doing this be?

Blizzard never took any action against gold buyers for a very good reason, if they would have banned the buyer, they would have had to ban the majority of their players, not a small group like everyone in here seems to believe.

that's the point I was trying to stress too, nyruami.

It's gonna happen, and the most important thing, I figure, is to make sure no one is printing money: If duping doesn't happen, at least it's only player earned changing hands, hopefully.

"

piscator123 wrote:

Scumbag RMT is scumbag.


Lol did u had to study to get ur job or did u bribe ur interviewer to get it?

"Did u had to study to get ur job?"

You're trying to insult someone about their job with...that?

Seriously?

Tone down the personal attacks already.

Given that GGG are clearly against all form of 'real money' transactions for in-game items, this thread has been left open as a courtesy to allow people to give their point of view on the matter. I say courtesy because nothing you say here will change anything. It is, quite honestly, the purest form of 'rant thread' we'll allow, but if it gets overrun with personal attacks and uncivil behaviour, I'll lock it without a word.

I'm not very good with words, but I felt compelled to comment on this, as its a real sore spot for me. I just don't understand the P2W mentality. I'm very much an old school gamer. (I played D1 when it came out and I think was in my twenties then, you can do the math). Paying my way through a game would feel so... "dishonest" to me.

An Analogy:

I'm at a park pitching horseshoes. I make my throw then hear some conversation going on by the stakes beside me. It's 2 guys playing at another set of stakes. One guy says to his friend, "I'll give you $25.00 if you let me walk up to 1' of the stake". The friend says, "sure, easy money". So he walks up to 1' of the stake and throws a ringer, then turns around and says, "I Win!!" I'm thinking to myself, well, techinally you won I guess, but you really didn't win.

Where is this guy's pride? Maybe it's a bad analogy, but I can't help but feel it's anything but cheating if you pay RM to get ahead in the game. Not to mention that maybe other people would've been willing to pay a whole lot more than that $25.00 just so they cannot fail. I guess for me it's a matter of pride. I just can't see how you could pay for progression and feel any satisfaction in what you did. I really don't want anything to do with a game like that. It was a major reason I came here to play this game in the first place. I truly hope that doesn't change.

I don't care if people are paying to gain an advantage. It's their own loss. In my opinion it is just less satisfying. So let them.

What concerns me is that there is money to be made. And people will go to great lengths to make money. This is why account theft, bots, hacks, you name it exist.

It's when your account gets hacked, your loot scooped up by a bot, your items loose in game value because of inflation etc. when real money becomes a problem.

If it was just you buying that godly gear to climb the ladder I wouldn't mind.

You can't have one without the other though.