Trading sucks.

"

Kulze wrote:

First of all, Max can't 'quit' his delve in the middle between 2 nodes. Also Max will struggle to even answer the message while in the middle between 2 nodes.
Max actually has an upside at the current situation 'Should I go out and do the trade for 2c or just ignore and move on?'
My example (if you would've read properly and actually understood it, which seemingly wasn't the case) actually gives the seller a VERY IMPORTANT DOWNSIDE. He DOESN'T KNOW WHAT'S SOLD before moving to the HO. Is it his map for 1 alch? Or is it that juicy 15 ex styg-vise he crafted half a day ago? Who knows. But as soon as he gets to the HO accepting the trade is ALWAYS better then ignoring it.

You can definitely quit a delve and do a trade if you really need to. Max doesn't have an upside, it depends what he is selling.. Sometimes it will be worth it, and sometimes it won't. That's a good thing.

"

Trade message --> invite --> trade --> 't4t'

is not really true. Sometimes there is other small talk that happens. This is the social interaction that games rarely have nowadays, and with an auction house, it would further degrade it.

"

It's called asynchronous trading and was promised by GGG years ago but never implemented, one iteration of it.

Which isn't an auction house. Totally different.

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Kulze wrote:

The only thing removed is the unnecessary movement to another HO.
Oh wait, we can also make it so a person has to port into the HO of the specific person. While the trade has to be done while both parties are online in comparison actually getting the item can easily be done by generating the HO of the selling party even while that person is offline. No issue there for the system.

Now you are talking about stuff that isn't really an auction house, but trade improvements. And honestly, I kinda agree with you

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girng wrote:

You can definitely quit a delve and do a trade if you really need to. Max doesn't have an upside, it depends what he is selling.. Sometimes it will be worth it, and sometimes it won't. That's a good thing.

Once again:

IN THE MIDDLE BETWEEN 2 NODES.

That means node started, cart is driving. NO, you CAN'T QUIT that. The ONLY solution is logout, death, or finishing. No, you can barely reply to someone in this situation if you're deep-delving either, you'll die most likely. You HAVE to wait until the delve is finished.

Sure, a trade comes up, just lemme die quick!

So that's NOT ANY SOLUTION as you're suggesting. Period.

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girng wrote:

is not really true. Sometimes there is other small talk that happens. This is the social interaction that games rarely have nowadays, and with an auction house, it would further degrade it.

Obviously.... that's why I even called it COMMON. Which means the NORM. Exceptions are always existing, at any norm.

Also since you've (once again) not read my post:
The 'exceptions' would still apply at my suggestion. Heck... there would even be incentive for it since the trade message can have a 'reply' button to directly message said player. Not to speak of the counter-offer one which allows those who dislike the interaction to abstain from it.

Also as a secondary part, trade is NOT primarily a social interaction. We got guilds, global, a trade-chat (for those mad enough to look in there) and group-play for that. Yeah, they are utter shit, I know. Push GGG to fix their shit finally rather then moving to another place which has NO PLACE for that to happen in the first place. People want stuff gone and get other stuff for it, trade is neither more nor less then that.

"

Kulze wrote:

"

girng wrote:

You can definitely quit a delve and do a trade if you really need to. Max doesn't have an upside, it depends what he is selling.. Sometimes it will be worth it, and sometimes it won't. That's a good thing.

Once again:

IN THE MIDDLE BETWEEN 2 NODES.

That means node started, cart is driving. NO, you CAN'T QUIT that. The ONLY solution is logout, death, or finishing. No, you can barely reply to someone in this situation if you're deep-delving either, you'll die most likely. You HAVE to wait until the delve is finished.

Sure, a trade comes up, just lemme die quick!

So that's NOT ANY SOLUTION as you're suggesting. Period.

"

girng wrote:

is not really true. Sometimes there is other small talk that happens. This is the social interaction that games rarely have nowadays, and with an auction house, it would further degrade it.

Obviously.... that's why I even called it COMMON. Which means the NORM. Exceptions are always existing, at any norm.

Also since you've (once again) not read my post:
The 'exceptions' would still apply at my suggestion. Heck... there would even be incentive for it since the trade message can have a 'reply' button to directly message said player. Not to speak of the counter-offer one which allows those who dislike the interaction to abstain from it.

Also as a secondary part, trade is NOT primarily a social interaction. We got guilds, global, a trade-chat (for those mad enough to look in there) and group-play for that. Yeah, they are utter shit, I know. Push GGG to fix their shit finally rather then moving to another place which has NO PLACE for that to happen in the first place. People want stuff gone and get other stuff for it, trade is neither more nor less then that.

You can copy the player's name, log out and log back in and message them. So yes, if you really need to stop to do a trade, you can.

Trade is obviously not a primarily social interaction, I never said it was. It does have a social element to it. Throughout my years trading, I've had some funny / great interactions with other players. Sometimes you get the occasional asshole, but it's pretty rare.

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Kulze wrote:

True, that's why de-listing an items after a specific time is sensible. 7 days... 1 day... 3 days... whatever makes the most sense after thinking about it for a while. Probably 1 day.

So i'll have to re-list my items every 1-whatever days?
I'll stick to poe.trade thank you

"

girng wrote:

You can copy the player's name, log out and log back in and message them. So yes, if you really need to stop to do a trade, you can.

Really sensible thing to do. 'Oh yes, just let me waste my sulphite which is worth around 5c in itself to get out to you for this 10c item!' Yeah... right... get real.
Also this doesn't apply for 10+ ex items, obviously people won't find another one of those easily... you can take your time. Sadly still unfriendly not to answer, are you there? Is it for sale still? Oh, who knows, right?

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girng wrote:

Trade is obviously not a primarily social interaction, I never said it was. It does have a social element to it. Throughout my years trading, I've had some funny / great interactions with other players. Sometimes you get the occasional asshole, but it's pretty rare.

Shitting can have a social element to it as well, go ahead, talk to the stallmate in the next public restroom.

Everything with 2 people CAN have a social interaction to it, that doesn't mean it should be MADE around that.

I've had some great interactions as well, also I had some by joining random groups, oh I also had some through guilds... and also had some with friends where other people I didn't knew where invited along.

EVERYWHERE if you want it.

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LaiTash wrote:

"

Kulze wrote:

True, that's why de-listing an items after a specific time is sensible. 7 days... 1 day... 3 days... whatever makes the most sense after thinking about it for a while. Probably 1 day.

So i'll have to re-list my items every 1-whatever days?
I'll stick to poe.trade thank you

Is a single click per item per day too much for you? :)

But getting a set of div-cards together in 1 hour + is fine, right?

Yeah, skewed priorities are a thing everywhere, I know I know.

Unless you got 1000+ items for sale that can easily be done in 2 minutes. Far less time-investment then the current situation.

"

Is a single click per item per day too much for you? :)

But getting a set of div-cards together in 1 hour + is fine, right?

I don't buy them that often, and i have a lot to sell. The current situation at least enables some social interaction, what you're proposing is only annoying. Buyers win, sellers loose, net result is the same ('cuz we're usually both) but the economy is worse, power creep is rising and social aspect is lost.

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raptorcardz wrote:

I play video games to get away from people. if I wanted to play the market I'd do the real thing. They need to make some sort of auction house or buy/sale order system. I can't imagine it being that difficult to implement. Don't tell me to go play SSF, I like being able to buy and sell things but not like this.

No, they don't. It is explained why this would be a bad idea in the trade manifesto, and GGG is absolutely right about it.

Unless a game economy is structured so all types of resources leave the game in about the same amount per player as they're generated, easy trading will be the death of that economy. An alternative that could work is account binding, but in the PoE economy it would have to be drastic (probably all rares and uniques).

EVE Online is a good example where the economy is structured so easy trading is viable, and even then there is a 'transaction cost' similar to PoE given that you still have to spend time transporting huge quantities to where you build.

PoE is a good example of a game economy that doesn't lend itself to easy trading. The amount of items generated daily is HUGE, they do not wear out, and the good ones are not deleted (vendored or destroyed)!
If there was easy trading, a lot of it would end up in the AH, which means that no player would EVER find any piece of equipment where they couldn't buy a much better one for a pittance.
The effect would not only be that players who likes finding stuff would quit, but that to maintain the difficulty of the game, GGG would have to raise the difficulty. Now, given that the majority of players don't trade or otherwise interact with other players, these players would be shafted... and they provide a sizeable chunk of GGGs income.

So no, easy trade can not be implemented in PoE. If you think that GGG would throw away that much money... you're smoking something funny... :-p

"

Cyzax wrote:

PoE is a good example of a game economy that doesn't lend itself to easy trading. The amount of items generated daily is HUGE, they do not wear out, and the good ones are not deleted (vendored or destroyed)!
If there was easy trading, a lot of it would end up in the AH, which means that no player would EVER find any piece of equipment where they couldn't buy a much better one for a pittance.
The effect would not only be that players who likes finding stuff would quit, but that to maintain the difficulty of the game, GGG would have to raise the difficulty. Now, given that the majority of players don't trade or otherwise interact with other players, these players would be shafted... and they provide a sizeable chunk of GGGs income.

So no, easy trade can not be implemented in PoE. If you think that GGG would throw away that much money... you're smoking something funny... :-p

What you forget is that POE TRADE is an AH, good items are already never destroyed and end up in the market and you already never find something useful for your own build

Good items, however, do leave the market when they become someone's final item and that's what keeps their prices high for a relatively long time

Easy trade would not change the number of good items in the market, drop rates would continue the same and the number of items leaving the market to become someone's final item would continue the same

The number of cheap items is another history, while it's offer would probably increase, with the inclusion of inexperienced players in the market the demand would certainly increase too, I really doubt it's value would drop that much

Another point is players who don't trade or do it rarely, most of them don't trade exactly because trading is difficult and time-consuming.

Easy trade would actually make the game easier for newbies and average players and reduce the difference in power between them and the top players

This league has abundance of currency, so I stopped filling buyouts under 15c

Amount of sales decreased, amount of fun increased.

Sure, i have linked stash tabs like div cards and unique tab where you could find items that have 1c value, but whenever i get whisp on perfect Tremor with "1c, ok?" and get an instant party invite, i politely reply "f/uck you too and have a nice day".

I am advocating for auction house a lot, but this league I actually don't mind the trade (and I am poor)

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CyberWizardB5 wrote:

"

Cyzax wrote:

PoE is a good example of a game economy that doesn't lend itself to easy trading.

What you forget is that POE TRADE is an AH...

I never said it wasn't... :-)

However... When people say 'I want an AH', what they really want is easier trading. The game can't support that.

"

CyberWizardB5 wrote:

Easy trade would not change the number of good items in the market

If trading becomes easier, more people will list items. The D3 AH was a prime example where people listed EVERYTHING that had any tiny chance of being sold, simply because there was no cost involved. Blizzard realised their game couldn't support an AH either, for the same reasons as PoE, and shut it down.

The current system is about as permissive as can be allowed without destroying the PoE economy. GGG knows this.