Path of Exile and p2w

You have to pay to get tabs. You don't have to pay to trade. Charging for trades would be P2W. Charging for tabs is paying, but it's not the level of P2W.

Utban dictionary:

"

Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.
"Dude, you've spent like 400 bucks on this game so you can beat everyone who hasn't spent any money. Pay-to-win noob!"

I think this is a solid argument, but it points out what someone asked in the beginning.

What is winning in Path of Exile?

Furthermore,

Are you competing with other players in order to reach the "winning" milestone?



Winning is subjective. This is a sandbox game.
Also, it is not a merchant simulator.

It seems the argument for why stash tabs are pay to win always amounts to the goal of amassing currency and items, which is an individually decided goal.

You can keep currency in a free tab.
You can keep items in a free tab.
Hell, you can keep the most expensive currency and items in a free tab.


But, there's a counterpoint: you can reach your goals quicker and easier if you have premium tabs (competitive, perhaps getting there before others).

And it's true, you can. But can you argue that you would be unable to create the best items in the game without having premium tabs?

No, you cannot argue that. Furthermore, I would argue that the more skilled a player is, the less room they will need in order to create the best items in the game. Because they would know exactly what they would need.

Thus, my conclusion is that the game is not P2W.

"

cjimaras wrote:

More stash tabs=more trading=more currency=better gear. It is definitely P2W system.

What you have said is wrong. More stash != more trading (you need only 1 stash tab to trade), thus next "=" in your chain are irrelevant.

And, even if it was relevant, you are not buying better gear with money therefore this action do not fall under p2w definition. What you have said is like "job with high salary = less time spend on work = more time to play = more in-game grind = better items: look everyone it is pay to win!" - ridiculous equation.

I can never understand the crying logic here. At the end of the day, yes, stash tabs make the game more enjoyable, full stop. But they cost less than 1/4 of what you would pay for a game.

Would these people still consider stash tabs pay to win if they just had to pay that amount to get the game and the tabs were free, I wonder?

I personally have absolutely no issue with giving the little bit of money for tabs to a game that has kept me entertained for years.

I still would like to see either:

1) A way for players to "earn" a single tab for their account through play/competition.

or

2) A charity fund set up and administered by GGG where players could purchase tabs for other anonymously.

"

Shagsbeard wrote:

I still would like to see either:

1) A way for players to "earn" a single tab for their account through play/competition.

or

2) A charity fund set up and administered by GGG where players could purchase tabs for other anonymously.

I agree, this game needs more meaningful achievements.
4.0 would be a great time to address this.

"

yamface wrote:

We aren't confused about this at all. You just happen to be the only person who actually cares to make this distinction. Everyone else does not give a flying F whether or not f2p/p2w are mutually exclusive because quite frankly, it misses the entire point.

You quoted me and made the effort to debate it, so you're probably one of the confused people.

On a more serious note: A LOT of people do in fact "give a flying F", as in all threads about this subject, people are writing stuff like "yeah, PoE is 'free', as a sarcastic remark pointing towards their view of stash tabs being P2W makes the game less "F2P".

And the part of my point that was "on point", you choose not to mention, which means you aren't in here to debate the "point" either? Ok.

"

Nubman wrote:

At the end of the day, yes, stash tabs make the game more enjoyable, full stop. But they cost less than 1/4 of what you would pay for a game.

It doesn't matter for the "principle riders". They could cost 10 pence and people would still moan. Because they view "F2P" as "FREE", and everything they have to pay for, is "unethical".

"

Phrazz wrote:

You quoted me and made the effort to debate it, so you're probably one of the confused people.

On a more serious note: A LOT of people do in fact "give a flying F", as in all threads about this subject, people are writing stuff like "yeah, PoE is 'free', as a sarcastic remark pointing towards their view of stash tabs being P2W makes the game less "F2P".

And the part of my point that was "on point", you choose not to mention, which means you aren't in here to debate the "point" either? Ok.

You still just don't get it. People argue that p2w defeats the purpose of a f2p model. The fact that you tried multiple times stating that f2p/p2w are not mutually exclusive has NOTHING to do with that.

Just listen to yourself:

A: Hey I want to play a game that's free to play, I'm low on cash lately.
A: Ok let's try poe.
A: Aww it's p2w.. aka I need to put in money to stay competitive. Guess I'll look for another game.
YOU: P2W AND F2P ARE NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE BTW

Unless you're playing SSF, tabs are absolutely P2W.

it's eTHICCal P2W but still P2W.

"

yamface wrote:

People argue that p2w defeats the purpose of a f2p model.

I know they are, but they are wrong. It absolutely does not defeat the purpose. You can enjoy this game in its entirety without paying a dime. A LOT of people are playing - and enjoying - PoE without paying. You CAN enjoy this game for free - and that's the core of a F2P game.

"

yamface wrote:

Just listen to yourself:

A: Hey I want to play a game that's free to play, I'm low on cash lately.
A: Ok let's try poe.
A: Aww it's p2w.. aka I need to put in money to stay competitive. Guess I'll look for another game.
YOU: P2W AND F2P ARE NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE BTW

People are winning races with 4 stash tabs, so you don't NEED to do anything. And who the hell plays competitive outside of races/racing? What does that even look like? Most currency "wins"?

I get your point. I do. But it's solely based on "F2P" = "free", or the fact that it should be. Well, it's not, never has been - never will be. Are there exceptions? Sure, but they are few and far in between.