The arguement against auto trading is what, exactly?...

Trade isn't annoying to "limit how much trading a person can do". It's annoying to keep items from flooding the market. There's a huge number of items that are not on the market because people consider them not worth the effort. Remove the effort and those items would become marketable. You'd see 100x more items that were "good enough", so the developers would have to make "good enough" into "not good enough". It's that rebalancing of the game that's more trouble than it's worth AND would make SSF play all the more difficult.

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Shagsbeard wrote:

Trade isn't annoying to "limit how much trading a person can do". It's annoying to keep items from flooding the market. There's a huge number of items that are not on the market because people consider them not worth the effort. Remove the effort and those items would become marketable. You'd see 100x more items that were "good enough", so the developers would have to make "good enough" into "not good enough". It's that rebalancing of the game that's more trouble than it's worth AND would make SSF play all the more difficult.

Yes. And this even applies to alterations, chroms, jewellers. Even exalted. People are not only not trading because something isn't worth it but also because they can't be bothered.

Make that go away, and everything you think about now that would be selling if we had automated trade is gonna be utterly worthless.

This doesn't mean we don't need trade improvements. But I think if they lower drops any more (and Chris has confirmed they will need to) PoE will be not playable anymore as we know it. And every upgrade anyone will ever find for their char is gonna be AH bought. Always.

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SSF_Reinhart wrote:

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xMustard wrote:

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Shagsbeard wrote:

There's a demand for maps. There's a supply. The only thing wrong with it is that people aren't willing to pay enough to motivate people to trade. They want it for "market value" even though there's not a market for it at that value.

Pay more for maps and people will start trading them.

except they're the ones advertising that they're selling it at that price....

Either they are lousy sellers or price fixers.

Which both are a consequence of the current trading system which both would be completely eradicated with a buy-out trading system.

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SSF_Reinhart wrote:

If you pay a good premium, people will come to you!

That isn't a particularly good argument to keep it as it is. Over paying to circumvent a bad system is bad.

THE biggest problem right now is that people "can't be bothered" to sell a low level map for 1 alc, but is of course more than happy to put it up for one. This means that the market price IS 1 alc and results in that everyone else is ALSO putting it up for 1 alc who ALSO can't be bothered to portal home to facilitate the trade. Because it's just 1 alc. They would if it was 10c, but then again no-one would ask for a trade because you'd be 10,532'nd down the list.

This has nothing to do with "flooding the market", it has to do with a trading system being out-developed by the game. Back then there weren't a Labyrinth you were unable portal out of, back then there were no maps you were dependent on to progress, yet back then GG items were still expensive just like they are today. This proves that it's the market that sets the prices, not the trading system.

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Magn3th3ad wrote:

Lack of community engagement, I believe they said.




Yeah, this is so much more enjoyable than playing...


I know, I'm just frustrated and wanted to have a whine.

All someone has to do is buy the super expensive supporter pack to have it done, china or korea whichever did it.

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Deadandlivin wrote:

Just make an auction house for Currencies, Maps, Fragments, Fossils, Essences et.c. Basically everything that's cancerinducing to obtain.

Let items and actual upgrades be traded as we trade them now.

A new trading system needs more than that. You need to be able to sell your items without the need to portal home to your hideout. That doesn't necessarily mean the buyer doesn't, he could still need to go to your hideout and perhaps interact with a stall or similar and the seller can "accept" the trade swiftly and more importantly, remotely. Because as long as the trade is outweighed by the time it takes to go through with it, the cost of a portal and the seller interrupting his role in a party, this problem will never be solved.

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Vresiberba wrote:

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Deadandlivin wrote:

Just make an auction house for Currencies, Maps, Fragments, Fossils, Essences et.c. Basically everything that's cancerinducing to obtain.

Let items and actual upgrades be traded as we trade them now.

A new trading system needs more than that. You need to be able to sell your items without portal home to your hideout. That doesn't necessarily mean the buyer doesn't, he could still need to go to your hideout and perhaps interact with a stall or similar and the seller can "accept" the trade swiftly, and remotely. Because as long as the trade is outweighed by the time it takes to go through with it and the cost of a portal, this problem will never be solved.

This is exactly my point. There has to be a cost to both parties or the market will be ruined. It has to be a cost that can't be transferred from one party to another... like time, or portals, or whatever. Eliminating the costs associate with selling or with buying would ruin the entire game. Currently, the costs are shifted more heavily to the seller. They have to quit what they're doing to sell... the buyer already has. So the buyer's cost becomes putting up with sellers that don't want to sell right then. Both sides have a cost. It works.

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Zakaluka wrote:

That leaves them purposefully making trade a kind of annoying thing to do, to limit how much trading any person can accomplish.

If that's GGG's intentions, then they're extremely inept if not somewhat sadistic about it. The current system does more harm in that players gets bummed out because no-one answers their trade requests than item accusation being intentionally held back. The latter people can take, the former not so much.

If GGG want's to intentionally hold back item acquisition via trading, they should put hard limits in. Limit how much you can trade and how often. Limit listed items in Premium tabs, remove the items if you're not in your hideout, put cooldowns in to stop people spamming sale of small items like maps and PUT IT IN WRITING!

Make it a game rule so no-one misunderstands why these limits are in place instead of being deliberately vague and claim the broken system is "intentional". Because it bloody well isn't! It's the same system we always had that incidentally DID work when we had no Labyrinth, no Alva, no Atlas and no hideouts. But now we do and people say the trading system is in lieu with that! Oh, please.

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Shagsbeard wrote:

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Vresiberba wrote:

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Deadandlivin wrote:

Just make an auction house for Currencies, Maps, Fragments, Fossils, Essences et.c. Basically everything that's cancerinducing to obtain.

Let items and actual upgrades be traded as we trade them now.

A new trading system needs more than that. You need to be able to sell your items without portal home to your hideout. That doesn't necessarily mean the buyer doesn't, he could still need to go to your hideout and perhaps interact with a stall or similar and the seller can "accept" the trade swiftly, and remotely. Because as long as the trade is outweighed by the time it takes to go through with it and the cost of a portal, this problem will never be solved.

This is exactly my point. There has to be a cost to both parties or the market will be ruined. It has to be a cost that can't be transferred from one party to another... like time, or portals, or whatever. Eliminating the costs associate with selling or with buying would ruin the entire game. Currently, the costs are shifted more heavily to the seller. They have to quit what they're doing to sell... the buyer already has. So the buyer's cost becomes putting up with sellers that don't want to sell right then. Both sides have a cost. It works.

No, it wont! The argument of "can't be bothered" is in no way, shape or form connected to a ruined market. But if people can't be bothered to sell their items they put up for sale because the game is infinitely more rewarding not selling the item, it doesn't "work", it's broken.

except chris is on record on multiple occasions saying that trade is intentionally kept annoying to slow down trade.

because the alternatives aren't good.

So, it's really doing exactly what's intended. That's kind of the opposite of a broken system.

You need to at least acknowledge the root issue if you want to be heard on this subject.

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Zakaluka wrote:

except chris is on record on multiple occasions saying that trade is intentionally kept annoying to slow down trade.

And it's bullshit because the trading system has never, ever been any different. Don't tell me that Cris & Co. made this trading system six years ago with Labyrinths and Incursions in mind.

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Zakaluka wrote:

because the alternatives aren't good.

Surely it's irrelevant if better alternatives exists if they don't intend to change it.

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Zakaluka wrote:

You need to at least acknowledge the root issue if you want to be heard on this subject.

The "root" issue is that the game has overtaken the trading system. It worked five-six years ago for the same reason it doesn't today. That's the "root" issue.