EXP LOSS POLL

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Crackmonster wrote:

Keep holding on to your false claims.

I haven't claimed anything though, and you completely missed the point, or just failed to understand it at all.

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PyroMule wrote:

That's the problem with the trolls in this thread. They give no credit or validation to the concept that there is ANY PROBLEM TO BE ADDRESSED.

Because this thread is about the penalty on death, it's not about lags, bugs or whatever else.
Sure, this game has a mountain of problems that will likely never completely get fixed, but this is not what this thread is about.

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PyroMule wrote:

A game designed to be played forever, perhaps should avoid extremely frustrating mechanics. Perhaps it should be designed around the FACT that there are lag times, server bugs, client crashes etc... and seek to remedy these problems to compensate and reward their players in a fair way, to retain them...

To a certain extent only.
If you compromise gameplay too much, you end up with a crappy game.

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Qiu_Qiu wrote:

Neither do you.
But here's the thing: there's an issue within the game, and we want it fixed. We are open about how the issue is fixed, as long as it is fixed, rather than hidden under a rug by accusing us of being noobs, or of wanting to make the game suck, or by simply keeping silent about this glaring issue like GGG usually does.

There is no issue regarding the xp penalty on death, and you saying otherwise will not make an actual issue magically appear.

You (and a bunch of other people throwing a tantrum in this thread) just don't want to question your character/choices.
Well, that's too bad.

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vmt80 wrote:

Oh, and to suggest 'xp penalty doesn't push anyone away from the game' is silly considering those opposed to any change have openly stated others should leave and find another game if they feel so.

Compared to how many player would stop playing if there was no (significant) penalty instead ?
Yah, I'm ready to bet that the game has more player than it would if there was no (significant) penalty for dying.

Not that it's anything easily measurable though, but just saying that it pushes people away implying that nobody would be pushed away if there wasn't one is seriously dumb.

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Fruz wrote:

Because this thread is about the penalty on death, it's not about lags, bugs or whatever else.
Sure, this game has a mountain of problems that will likely never completely get fixed, but this is not what this thread is about.

You cannot discuss one thing without mention what might cause it. It’s called supporting your claim with facts.

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Fruz wrote:

Compared to how many player would stop playing if there was no (significant) penalty instead ?
Yah, I'm ready to bet that the game has more player than it would if there was no (significant) penalty for dying.

Not that it's anything easily measurable though, but just saying that it pushes people away implying that nobody would be pushed away if there wasn't one is seriously dumb.

That’s nonsense. People leave, or stop playing in the league, because the xp loss is a major setback.

Learning ”new” boss mechanics is a pain and most of the times people try them when they level up. Between lag in Delve, game bugs and some weird mods combo in the Vaal Temple I lost 60% in two days. How fun is it? Amazingly fun. So much that I barely play now.

And no. People won’t leave if there’s no penalty for death. Why? Because what happens to others means nothing to them. You wouldn’t care less if I reach level 100 deathless or not and don’t pretend that you do. You want a challenging game? Go play HC without a logout macro or hitting alt+f4 in any panicking situation.

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TIGRElaranja wrote:

Between lag in Delve, game bugs and some weird mods combo in the Vaal Temple I lost 60% in two days. How fun is it? Amazingly fun. So much that I barely play now.

You should learn from your deaths. Didn't you learn? Actually, instead of death reports you have lags and random damage spikes, but you must LEARN!!!

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TIGRElaranja wrote:

You wouldn’t care less if I reach level 100 deathless or not and don’t pretend that you do.

You will be surprised, but he does, because he sees lvl as a competitive rank.

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TIGRElaranja wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

Because this thread is about the penalty on death, it's not about lags, bugs or whatever else.
Sure, this game has a mountain of problems that will likely never completely get fixed, but this is not what this thread is about.

You cannot discuss one thing without mention what might cause it. It’s called supporting your claim with facts.

So .... we cannot discuss about the xp penalty on death without mentioning every other thing in the game and we have to conclude that it all boils down do the xp penalty on death ?

Or could you try to use some logic please ?


It has nothing to do with supporting claim with facts ..........

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TIGRElaranja wrote:

Learning ”new” boss mechanics is a pain and most of the times people try them when they level up. Between lag in Delve, game bugs and some weird mods combo in the Vaal Temple I lost 60% in two days. How fun is it? Amazingly fun. So much that I barely play now.

TLDR : I want to play a game where there is no "loosing", even if I mess up.

the usual.

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TIGRElaranja wrote:

And no. People won’t leave if there’s no penalty for death. Why? Because what happens to others means nothing to them. You wouldn’t care less if I reach level 100 deathless or not and don’t pretend that you do. You want a challenging game? Go play HC without a logout macro or hitting alt+f4 in any panicking situation.

Because changing a mechanic that affects EVERYONE playing SC will impact ... you know ... ALL of those players ???
I'm not going to bother trying to make you understand all the implication of a lack of any penalty when dying, if you are not getting it now, I'm not going that low.

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LeadRaven wrote:

You will be surprised, but he does, because he sees lvl as a competitive rank.

I don't give a damn about what he, you or others play.
Go troll somewhere else.

Many of you write no one is quiting Poe cause of exp loss. Well here is a story of 2 friends, that play Poe together and both are in a small friends only guild of 5.

One of them played cyclone, is newer to Poe, very old to the genre. Someone basically perfectly fit as Poe target audience. Plays a lot, loves arpgs, doesn't cheat and pays. He was good enough skillwise to be on d2 and d3 leaderboards when poeple still played it.

He did really well getting through campaign and progressing through atlas, but he struggled with not dying in reds. He did guardians deathless. His defense is not uber, but its really solid, yet he died far more than 200 times. He tried to improve and we did what we could to make the build more tanky (has 30k ish Eva, 130% of all res and chaos res solid, 45ish dodge and a lot of physical mitigation on top), yet he was just slain over and over again.

His words are "i dont even know what i died too. I have tons of life, every buff on, no problems, than something happens and i have almost zero or i am goners. So i ran with him, it was legion rares damage spikes on difficult maps (reds with 2+ hard mods). Cluster fuk of effects, he plays melee, he definetely tried to avoid the damage, but cant avoid all with their attack speed and amount. One shotted. Just gone in a brink. We can say aura stacking with added damage mod from map or just an unreasonable amount of pretty much unavoidable damage.

So i told him, Poe is played differently. You want exp, you do easier content or make half immortal tanks if you want to play very difficult content. You will be slain from time to time, the game is "balanced" this way. Its its answer to half immortal fidget spinners that regain full life in 0.1 second.

I started to make an aurabot guardian to basically help him out mitigate some of those spikes. It took me 2 days to level that char to 74. My friend lost 40% of exp during this time and just ragequit when i was in act 9. His words were "i will not run like a muppet stupid boring easy content, i will not fight a mob for an hour and i hate lack of progression. I am done with this." It was t8 cc/cd with dmg and vulnerability t8 map he was running. One shooted by a blue ranged pack. He just quit afterwards.

I finished my guardian, run for a moment and well not really logging anymore as well.. You can say git gud, we dont want such players, the game cannot cater to "noobs". Do your thing, but there are players that quit the game solely cause of exp penalty. Exp penalty as it is right now does not work as an improvement fuel for many players. And to players that can have thousands of hours in similar games.

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vmt80 wrote:

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Xystre wrote:

if you're not even playing the game and you're waiting for classic why even bother in giving an opinion on a game you soon will be no longer playing?

I guess it's to give feedback, although if someone at GGG is reading the forums, I suppose he might have already read my opinion on it. If they really want to have feedback, probably it's not just those who stayed whose opinion should matter.

Oh, I've not been playing PoE since -what- last christmas time? It's not like anything regarding DP has changed since then fundamentally.

(Reasons I left included other issues with PoE also, even if I felt overtly punishing DP was among them.)

so basically for your 'own' sake you think the game should stick with it while you're playing classic for your nostalgia dose..

how's this right?

ah that's right it's not.. just like the other guy spewing non sense too at this point..

look go a head and enjoy classic, if you're done with the game best moving on.. speculating and giving 'feedback' on something it's not your priority to play is like saying nothing.

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Fruz wrote:

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vmt80 wrote:

Oh, and to suggest 'xp penalty doesn't push anyone away from the game' is silly considering those opposed to any change have openly stated others should leave and find another game if they feel so.

Compared to how many player would stop playing if there was no (significant) penalty instead ?
Yah, I'm ready to bet that the game has more player than it would if there was no (significant) penalty for dying.

Not that it's anything easily measurable though, but just saying that it pushes people away implying that nobody would be pushed away if there wasn't one is seriously dumb.

Fair enough. I'm not exactly arguing that either one is worse than another or that either one cannot hold true.

I sort of get it, there needs to be an in-game incentive system to promote orderly gameplay. Granted, personally I don't think what you have right now is a very good one. I promoted a system upon death which didn't take back character progress, a sort of temporary 'content lock' or 'death fatigue'. Honestly I'm not sure whether people thought of it as a joke or not since nobody commented on it at the time. What I am saying is devs can be innovative about it, there's no need to be stuck in the old ways.

I made a comparison to WoW rested mechanic, which I think is still a very clever idea: there can actually be mechanics in a game to incentivize putting the game aside for a while and then come back. This prevents players being burned out so fast. It's counterintuitive if you are only trying to keep a player playing. But it worked out well in WoW. Now, this is just an example of innovative mechanics to keep players coming back (I'm not arguing for implementing the same mechanic to a different game). No punishment is involved.

Someone pointed out I shouldn't be commenting cause I'm not playing PoE anymore. However, PoE is a good game, there are many good elements in it. If I didn't care I wouldn't be giving any feedback or suggestions at all.

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vmt80 wrote:

I made a comparison to WoW rested mechanic, which I think is still a very clever idea: there can actually be mechanics in a game to incentivize putting the game aside for a while and then come back. This prevents players being burned out so fast. It's counterintuitive if you are only trying to keep a player playing. But it worked out well in WoW. Now, this is just an example of innovative mechanics to keep players coming back (I'm not arguing for implementing the same mechanic to a different game). No punishment is involved.

This is actually something that I never considered, I guess that's a fair point, although that would need extra caution if ever implemented.

How is the system in WoW ?

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LeadRaven wrote:

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TIGRElaranja wrote:

Between lag in Delve, game bugs and some weird mods combo in the Vaal Temple I lost 60% in two days. How fun is it? Amazingly fun. So much that I barely play now.

You should learn from your deaths. Didn't you learn? Actually, instead of death reports you have lags and random damage spikes, but you must LEARN!!!

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TIGRElaranja wrote:

You wouldn’t care less if I reach level 100 deathless or not and don’t pretend that you do.

You will be surprised, but he does, because he sees lvl as a competitive rank.

He, and many like him, find changes in things he might get an advantage with over others fearsome. They are afraid of losing that edge. That applies to the ones that are opposed to having a proper AW.


As it is now we learn nothing. Chars get one shotted from mobs that aren’t in our field of view because of how close the camera is. Hard bosses take time to learn because you’re afraid of doing them since you might lose that XP that takes a long time to get.

I’d rather have a system where you needed to start the boss from the beginning every time you die like in D3 than to lose XP. You lost a whole afternoon trying to kill a T15 boss and gave up? Bummer but hey, at least you learned some of the mechanics. Did that made you waste 20 maps on the process? Go find or buy some more. (hopefully in a AW)

we just need a seperate league for people who dont want to lose exp progression
thats it
i think chris is affraid people would like it more than the one with penalty
because people would actually care more about the builds on the tree and actual gear
im lvl 95 now and im not gonna lvl up any further because there is no meaning in wasting that much time because one mistake (which doesnt have to be my fault)
and i have to grind 2 or more hours to get 10% back
just as an example