Poe has outgrown Trade

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Xinronyr wrote:

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andreicde wrote:

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Crackmonster wrote:

The manifesto is false information based on false assumptions. Well, a good chunk of it anyway, there are some true things also but none that justify making players suffer the experience.

Let's also hear from the fools, what did D3 EXACTLY prove that's relevant to PoE? I won't be answering to any "It proved it"-blablabaselessclaims. But you can't quantify, you have to make a claim based assumptions because it defies logic.

The ONLY thing D3 proved is that an AH released with RMT is a big no-no, however it did not proved anything in regards to what an ''ah'' would do in this game.

What would an AH do here? It would make players not hate their life when they do crafting, search for gear or try to sell their currency and price fixers would be taken out of the equation.

Price-fixers would still kinda exist in an AH system, just in a different way.

In an AH system, they would be required to accrue wealth and monopolize on an item, then sell the item at their desired set price.

I guess that would be price-setting/hiking and not fixing... but it would be problematic in that regard.

However, the currency in PoE is self-depleting (can be used for crafting, so it eliminates itself out of the economy when used), so even if someone attempts to set a new price, the demand and current amount of a currency has stronger precedence on value of items versus someone's opinion on a set price. Therefor, even price-setting would be difficult to do and profit from unless the demand for the monopolized items is absurdly high.

In the end, the problem would most likely solve itself because of the way currency works in PoE... so there really wouldn't be an issue in the long run (my opinion of course**).

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Xinronyr wrote:

I didn't say anything about D3's RMT AH. That's an entirely different beast on its own.

I was talking about price fixing/setting done on AHs in a standard implementation of an AH.

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Mortyx wrote:

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Sickness wrote:

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Aquatic26 wrote:

- GGG's notion of "fast trades" ruining the game is unproven.

No. It's proven in D3 and in PoE before/after poe.trade became the norm.
Your "side" will never make any progress if you continue to ignore or handwave this away.

Let me tell you a secret:

1- D3 launched with an ah and a rmah and people said it was a shit game.

2- D3 removed the ah and the rmah and people still say it is a shit game.

So let's try to find the correlation between ah and d3 failure. Give me your reasoning.

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Kulze wrote:

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Sickness wrote:

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Aquatic26 wrote:

- GGG's notion of "fast trades" ruining the game is unproven.

No. It's proven in D3 and in PoE before/after poe.trade became the norm.
Your "side" will never make any progress if you continue to ignore or handwave this away.

Ah =/= fast trade.

We can trade quickly, the issue is getting a hold of the people who want to trade.

So... reduce the frustration there and add a time-sink for the trade itself, issue solved. You're shifting it over from one place to another which evens it out, the people on the other hand won't feel the frustration anymore as acquiring an item is more convenient, the time they need to do so though could stay the same still.

D3 only proved that an AH in a low-disparity system without any deflation-mechanic implemented will not work... which is obvious for anyone knowing economy anyways.

It's literally sickening to read the 'But D3!' claims... which are always either ignorance, lack of knowledge or straw-mans.

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Sickness wrote:

D3 AH = fast and easy trades. It ruined the game IMO, and I have no reason to believe that too fast and easy trading would not ruin PoE as well, especially considering how much damage PoE.trade has already done.

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Kulze wrote:

people on the other hand won't feel the frustration anymore as acquiring an item is more convenient, the time they need to do so though could stay the same still.

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Kulze wrote:

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Sickness wrote:

D3 AH = fast and easy trades. It ruined the game IMO, and I have no reason to believe that too fast and easy trading would not ruin PoE as well, especially considering how much damage PoE.trade has already done.

Yes, true... it also is made in a system which has low item-disparity, good drop-rates for top-tier items and a purely inflationary currency without any sinks for it.

So despite your words being true you haven't taken all of those things into account.

And the damage done hasn't come from PoE.trade, it has come from the implementation of a trade-API which is outside of the client. Hence people having access to it and being able to make programs which work with that and give an unfair advantage over others.

The playing-field needs to be level for any system to work first and foremost.

Then we can look how to make the sought-after effects work.

Then we can go into detail for how to realize them.

That order is important... after all the devil's in the detail. Broad assumptions are easy to make, and they are always true and always false at the same time. Why? Because those depend on the specific situation.
So, we need a very specific situation and then we can discuss if something would work or not.

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andreicde wrote:

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Crackmonster wrote:

The manifesto is false information based on false assumptions. Well, a good chunk of it anyway, there are some true things also but none that justify making players suffer the experience.

Let's also hear from the fools, what did D3 EXACTLY prove that's relevant to PoE? I won't be answering to any "It proved it"-blablabaselessclaims. But you can't quantify, you have to make a claim based assumptions because it defies logic.

The ONLY thing D3 proved is that an AH released with RMT is a big no-no, however it did not proved anything in regards to what an ''ah'' would do in this game.

What would an AH do here? It would make players not hate their life when they do crafting, search for gear or try to sell their currency and price fixers would be taken out of the equation.