Automated currency pickup would make me so happy

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Mortyx wrote:

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in order for spectres to attack you have to move or attack aswell.
not automated; next argument please!

Agreed, in order for an auction house to function you need to walk to your stash to post an item and set a price.
Not automated; next argument please!

automation isnt the reason why auction house isnt in the game.
its cuz ah kills games faster than EA

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Lightelder wrote:

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MrsDeath_ wrote:

trademacro and lutbot should be bannable aswell.
i ve been outspoken about this. any 3rd pt program that gives you advantage over other players should be bannable and ggg do ban people using stupid autoanswer macros. they should ban any other 3rd pt program that injects themselves into client.

Interesting position, making trade more clunky by removing QoL-macros would be in line with the trade manifesto afaik... On the other hand using third party sites is hardly controllable. And imo poe.ninja and that stuff is nice and enriches the game. Without poedb the synthesizer would have been a nightmare... Having a macro for replies is imo preferable to not replying at all (which is what many would do without macro, since they don't like dieing while replying). And not using PoB would definitely downgrade the game for me, guess I have a totally different opinion on this.

never used pob
never used a trade macro

pob is fine but i am an oldschool player. i trust my experience over any other 3rd pt calculator. when it comes to trade macro i think it gives advantage over other players and its mother of all trade bots. it should be bannable so we can easily hunt down all the trade bots.
about poe database or wiki; they are learning sites i have no issues with them. same goes with poe.ninja its a fine stats site also good for showing your build in guides.
about dying while replying argument; you dont have to reply a trade request just tp out and invite the person it isnt hard. this is not an enough reason to use 3rd pt auto replying macro bots.

Congrats on being the only person who doesn't see the value of 3rd party tools and resources. It must be quite lonely and dark down there.

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Albinosaurus wrote:

Congrats on being the only person who doesn't see the value of 3rd party tools and resources. It must be quite lonely and dark down there.

only person?
they can be valuable but dont give em too much power to a degree that they give advantage to people over others.
resources? sure use em. i do but not trade macros. no auto map layout showers. keep em out of my game ban anyone who uses them.
about dark and down; i am pretty confident in my game knowledge. its the only reason i can make 4 mirrors in less than a month in a league while playing with 1 hand. you can use all the tools in the world but none can give you the experience and foresight i had.

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MrsDeath_ wrote:

any 3rd pt program in poe would get you instantly banned and any sort of bots are useless in poe imo. so i am not worried about bots. cant care less. but i would hate this bot type of feature adding into the game.

Since it's not IN the game but only acts OUTSIDE of it it's allowed. Sorry to burst your bubble there.

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MrsDeath_ wrote:

but what are those fun parts? fun can be a very subjective term. i can have fun while picking up stuff from ground. can you be certain about whats tedious to each and every player in the game?

I'm repeating myself about this exact question over and over in several topics: Yes, fun is subjective, that's true.
On the other hand base-mechanics in a game focused on the core-experience it wants to deliver are mandatory. PoE wants to be the best ARPG on the market which is able to be played forever. Hence they have to deliver mechanics which keep players from burning out and instead getting them hooked long-term.

And in general, success (of any sort) is what creates fun, as well as humor, but the second point is another thing. So, creating as many rewarding ways as possible in a game is the way to go, all while reducing the tedious ones to the bare minimum. Combine both and it's enjoyable for a large amount of people, simple as that, hard to do though.

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MrsDeath_ wrote:

i disagree. making auto pickup would lose every meaning on joy coming from dropping something valuable.

Your disagreement is noted and immediately debunked. Getting a rare crafting material in for example Grim Dawn is enjoyable, nonetheless the majority of the player-base is using auto-pickup for those. Same goes for items which are rare there, many people auto-pick them as well, nonetheless enjoying to open their inventory and looking through them.

The enjoyment of getting loot isn't coming from clicking on it, it's coming from obtaining it, the way it moves from A to B is not relevant there, or at least not to the major degree.

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MrsDeath_ wrote:

automation isnt the reason why auction house isnt in the game.
its cuz ah kills games faster than EA

That's not a very smart and though-out answer.
GW-2 has a auction-house, it's thriving.
Eve-Online has a localized Auction-House, the whole economy depends on it, it's thriving.

AH's in a well established economy are a good thing. In a badly implemented one they will cause issues. Make a good economy and you have no problems with it.

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MrsDeath_ wrote:

resources? sure use em. i do but not trade macros. no auto map layout showers. keep em out of my game ban anyone who uses them.

Well then, care to explain how to do that? Those programs don't interact with the server in any way, they all are 1-action mechanics at most, hence allowed by GGG.

How would you mechanically discern the /hideout command done automatically, or the logout-macro from a trade-macro? It's not mechanically possible.
The only way to do it is via logging the private-chat as well, any 1-action macro doing anything else then logging out or moving to the hideout being automatically banned. This causes issues for anyone who sets up their own program which allows the usage though... a single mis-spelling and you're banned.
That's a far worse situation then generally allowing all 1-action macros.

Also as the other 3rd-party programs only read from the layout of the client and don't ever send anything they are absolutely invisible for GGG. How do you want to ban them?

And that's what I'm talking about, what I described in my posts before is exactly a usage of those options which give a VAST advantage towards players having the knowledge to build it, or the contacts to get such a program. Hence GGG needs to implement their mechanics in a way it won't give players any advantage over others, that's the task.

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Kulze wrote:

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MrsDeath_ wrote:

any 3rd pt program in poe would get you instantly banned and any sort of bots are useless in poe imo. so i am not worried about bots. cant care less. but i would hate this bot type of feature adding into the game.

Since it's not IN the game but only acts OUTSIDE of it it's allowed. Sorry to burst your bubble there.

ban any and everything injects itself to the game. simple
+ you can get banned for something outside of the game.something being outside of the game that isnt injected does not exclude it from violating tos.
ggg is one of the softest companies when it comes to this stuff i ve seen so far. they should ve hold their ground and banned every auto replying trade macro including price checkers.

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MrsDeath_ wrote:

ban any and everything injects itself to the game. simple
+ you can get banned for something outside of the game.something being outside of the game that isnt injected does not exclude it from violating tos.
ggg is one of the softest companies when it comes to this stuff i ve seen so far. they should ve hold their ground and banned every auto replying trade macro including price checkers.

I'm not talking about auto-replying here.

Once again, imagine the following:

You have a program outside of PoE, not interacting with the client in ANY way. It's basically the same as a browser, whatever music-player you use or even friggin Excel, just another program.

This program picks up all things you want to auto-track, immediately inserting them into the clipboard... which also isn't the Client in any manner.

Now you go ahead in-game, press 'Enter --> Ctrl +V --> Enter' and you've send some random dude a pre-made trade-message.

Now you go and make the trade, then press some random key-combination to tell the outside program (which is a live-tracker by the way, to make it even more obvious) to insert the next trade-message into the clipboard.

No searching for consumables, no browser, you can stay in-game all the time and have a VAST advantage over other people.

Also you CAN'T ban that, it's IMPOSSIBLE WITHOUT SPY-WARE.

Hence once again:
It is NO solution how it is NOW. There need to be CHANGES to FIX the ISSUES present NOW.


Got it finally?

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Kulze wrote:

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MrsDeath_ wrote:

ban any and everything injects itself to the game. simple
+ you can get banned for something outside of the game.something being outside of the game that isnt injected does not exclude it from violating tos.
ggg is one of the softest companies when it comes to this stuff i ve seen so far. they should ve hold their ground and banned every auto replying trade macro including price checkers.

I'm not talking about auto-replying here.

Once again, imagine the following:

You have a program outside of PoE, not interacting with the client in ANY way. It's basically the same as a browser, whatever music-player you use or even friggin Excel, just another program.

This program picks up all things you want to auto-track, immediately inserting them into the clipboard... which also isn't the Client in any manner.

Now you go ahead in-game, press 'Enter --> Ctrl +V --> Enter' and you've send some random dude a pre-made trade-message.

Now you go and make the trade, then press some random key-combination to tell the outside program (which is a live-tracker by the way, to make it even more obvious) to insert the next trade-message into the clipboard.

No searching for consumables, no browser, you can stay in-game all the time and have a VAST advantage over other people.

Also you CAN'T ban that, it's IMPOSSIBLE WITHOUT SPY-WARE.

Hence once again:
It is NO solution how it is NOW. There need to be CHANGES to FIX the ISSUES present NOW.


Got it finally?

pretty sure admitting to use those programs can get you banned but as i said before ggg is soft on em.
and you are right w/o injection its impossible to detect.

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MrsDeath_ wrote:

pretty sure admitting to use those programs can get you banned but as i said before ggg is soft on em.
and you are right w/o injection its impossible to detect.

Once again, no, even if you admit to them.

They are not against ToS and they are also not applicable to ToS. They are no mechanical help in-game of any kind, hence they can't even make it against their ToS in any reasonable way. And even if, they don't have a way to look out for it.

You know, if there's a crime which the law has no punishment for it... then it's not a crime.
If the law has no way to know about a crime... it has never happened officially.

It's that simple.

Having an API for trading is a MASSIVE mistake because of above mentioned issue. Removing the API would kill the trading-leagues completely on the other hand.
So, the solution? Something else. There is no other choice then making another system. The one we have now is inherently broken in it's functionality for what it's supposed to do, adjustments are impossible to circumvent this. Hence GGG either needs to kill all trading-sites as well as poedb (very VERY IMMENSE mistake to do) or they need to re-work it into ANY OTHER system which is IN-GAME ONLY.

That's the solution people are crying out for since a long time now while GGG is deaf towards it. Probably because they lack understanding of this issue in the same way you do.
Either that or they voluntarily allow this to happen which is a very nice way for Venezuelans to earn more then their actual money is worth. Gotta support broken economies, right? Like GGG does with their own. Brothers in suffering and such...

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Kulze wrote:

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MrsDeath_ wrote:

pretty sure admitting to use those programs can get you banned but as i said before ggg is soft on em.
and you are right w/o injection its impossible to detect.

Once again, no, even if you admit to them.

They are not against ToS and they are also not applicable to ToS. They are no mechanical help in-game of any kind, hence they can't even make it against their ToS in any reasonable way. And even if, they don't have a way to look out for it.

You know, if there's a crime which the law has no punishment for it... then it's not a crime.
If the law has no way to know about a crime... it has never happened officially.

It's that simple.

Having an API for trading is a MASSIVE mistake because of above mentioned issue. Removing the API would kill the trading-leagues completely on the other hand.
So, the solution? Something else. There is no other choice then making another system. The one we have now is inherently broken in it's functionality for what it's supposed to do, adjustments are impossible to circumvent this. Hence GGG either needs to kill all trading-sites as well as poedb (very VERY IMMENSE mistake to do) or they need to re-work it into ANY OTHER system which is IN-GAME ONLY.

That's the solution people are crying out for since a long time now while GGG is deaf towards it. Probably because they lack understanding of this issue in the same way you do.
Either that or they voluntarily allow this to happen which is a very nice way for Venezuelans to earn more then their actual money is worth. Gotta support broken economies, right? Like GGG does with their own. Brothers in suffering and such...

i think trading system in arpgs is the pandora's box. solution to current system is unclear and surely auction house is not the answer imo.
but you are right. an ingame only system would be such a relief to players.
question is where do u put that? game is already too dense with its ui.

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MrsDeath_ wrote:

i think trading system in arpgs is the pandora's box. solution to current system is unclear and surely auction house is not the answer imo.
but you are right. an ingame only system would be such a relief to players.
question is where do u put that? game is already too dense with its ui.

Yes, it's not any easy topic, that much I have to agree upon, absolutely.

The solution would be a complete overhaul of the UI though. It's a decade old basically, GGG needs to take their time and get their game into a modern state.
Adjustment of size, options to increase or decrease those sizes respective to your liking. Offering advanced options. Reducing clutter by creating sub-sections on the options. Out-sourcing UI-elements into workbenches or NPCs (Which is already one of the things done to a degree) and an option to take a look at your delve/beasts/synthesis(well, in the future maybe)/syndicate/temple with a single button-press.

It's not an easy road, sadly they let the game become so massively out-dated in some areas that it's a problem to get it up to snuff again.

Also, a trading-NPC would be good enough, simply going there, searching for the items and then sending the message.
A bit of ease-of-use would be great as well. AH is bad, we know that, hence another solution which comes close to functionality but keeps player-interaction:

-You can search - like the trading site (or an AH) - for an item.
-When you want to buy it the buyer gets a notification at their trading-overlay, a new UI-element under 'social'.
-If it's a fixed price then the buyer has to manually accept it, the seller as well, open sales are immediately locking the respective items/consumables for further use or listing (no price-fixing anymore)
-If it's a price which one can bargain for there is the option for a counter-offer, players would need to talk then.
-As soon as the seller accepts, the items are then traded and set into a specific tab set-up for trades, this also limits the amount of bulk-items able to be sold/bought.

With the solution buying an item is mandatory unless you actively end the trade before it's made, giving an extra warning before each transaction to make sure it's the right thing you're buying.
Also it takes care of permanent listing, the seller needs to press actively a button for the traded item to re-appear in the listing, this becomes impossible if too many people are interested in it anyway.

As another upside to it, this allows the implementation of mirror-services or crafting-services as well, especially with the new form of unveiling items this would give a great incentive to find the respective crafts as well as limit the amount of scams, removing a lot of currency from the market which just can't be used because of trust-issues.


As for the argument 'But then they won't see the MTX in the other player's Hideout!'... GGG should fix their party-play, then this is no issue, and party-play is fucked beyond belief anyway. Everything at it's proper place.