Trickster Melee Rework v3.2 with Energy Shield and more trickery

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Fruz wrote:

Which means that you are proposing things that will by definition be inferior to the really 'good' builds, and asking for changes that are .... very unrealistic to be implemented by GGG imho.

Sorry I thought your implication was non-draconic builds are always bad. Which reminded me of oldschool RPGs and how the "inferior" builds and races are preferred because constraints create excitement.

Slowing everything down is not the way to go. Giving the players the tools they need to play at a higher level is what we need to do.

I am not pitching ten new acts, giving players new classes to better experience the content is pragmatic by definition.

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nooooodles wrote:

I am not pitching ten new acts, giving players new classes to experience the content in a new way is pragmatic by definition.

Not if you know that those things that you are adding basically won't be played as they won't be deemed good.

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Fruz wrote:

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nooooodles wrote:

I am not pitching ten new acts, giving players new classes to experience the content in a new way is pragmatic by definition.

Not if you know that those things that you are adding basically won't be played as they won't be deemed good.

As someone who has played a ladder or two I am sometimes in the bubble you are experiencing where I think that everyone is doing the same thing, however, the betrayal data helps us to get a better look at the real picture.

The most played class was at 20%, the next was at 14%. Essentially 70% of the game population is playing the cool classes that interest them while the other 30% are playing the two good classes.

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Fruz wrote:

So ... any class but Occultist and Juggs are shit ?
How come is elementalist the most played class in SSF HC by quite a lot ?
And most of them aren't playing CI.

Because like me, not everyone is a meta slave. People play what they want to play. I play vs shadows every league, doesn't make them good.

I don't know much about the elementalist builds, but I can see its tree has some reduced elemental Damage taken. I'm guessing that plus freezing things with cold damage is the draw. Or just one shotting everything with arc or something before it can hit you.

The point wasn't to say other classes are bad, the point was to compare es/ ev to those classes/ build types. I mean by your own argument it would be pretty weak.

It makes sense to build life on ssc for obvious reasons, although it's still kind of puzzling to me with all the new crafting options why more wouldn't be ci.

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鬼殺し wrote:

Just a fun update: this thread really did get me thinking about EV/ES Trickster and the basic concept of him being an 'arcane assassin'. I started one, fully aware that I don't have the resources on SSF to really pull it off, but oh well.

But more to the point, I sort of remembered that Saboteur gets probably *the* best evasion-based ascendancy in the game and I have a fairly strong feeling Born In The Shadows can be the basis of a very effective evader. So I started that and haven't stopped. Sorry Trickster, you might have started the thought process but I'm going with the insane level of evasion buff constant blind gives. :)

...Which is all to say, maybe Trickster should have the blind aura. It really does stand out in an otherwise very focused Ascendancy all about traps and mines.

I'd love to have that in trickster, I have thought about simply using sabo instead of trickster before on melee builds solely because of the blind

It still wouldn't fix the main problems though imo

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Legatus1982 wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

So ... any class but Occultist and Juggs are shit ?
How come is elementalist the most played class in SSF HC by quite a lot ?
And most of them aren't playing CI.

Because like me, not everyone is a meta slave. People play what they want to play. I play vs shadows every league, doesn't make them good.

You don't need to go as far as a meta slave, you are playing melee after all.

If so many are playing Elementalists, it's because it's working, it's not a huge amount of people going niche.
Easy freeze, damage, and the recent spell additions .... and you have something very strong, and you can be tanky enough with MoM + investing just the right amount of nodes into defenses.


Saboteur is of course strong as traps are very strong, trickster is nothing weak either, patient reaper is amazing and there are other really nice things in there.

Elementalists and Occultist are the flavour, and Jugg is just very strong (and RF pretty broken in the current state of the game, which is partly why Jugg can be disgusting)


If there is one thing that I find weird in the Trickster, it's harness the void .... it feels like they didn't know what to put there and they put some random node that adds chaos damage ... which feels a bit out of place to me.

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Fruz wrote:

If there is one thing that I find weird in the Trickster, it's harness the void .... it feels like they didn't know what to put there and they put some random node that adds chaos damage ... which feels a bit out of place to me.

It's certainly an unusually boring node for the class - just straight-up damage and that's it. (I mean Prolonged Pain is kinda boring too, but it least it tries by tossing in a defensive bonus). I don't really mind the random aspect, everything averages out in the end, especially on an attackspeed/castspeed heavy class like this.

It bugs me that the small node leading to Harness the Void is increased DOT, when Harness is all about hit damage. I guess they're thinking you might be using poison...but you also might not be. Just make it a chaos damage bonus.

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Fruz wrote:

You don't need to go as far as a meta slave, you are playing melee after all.

If so many are playing Elementalists, it's because it's working, it's not a huge amount of people going niche.
Easy freeze, damage, and the recent spell additions .... and you have something very strong, and you can be tanky enough with MoM + investing just the right amount of nodes into defenses.


Saboteur is of course strong as traps are very strong, trickster is nothing weak either, patient reaper is amazing and there are other really nice things in there.

Elementalists and Occultist are the flavour, and Jugg is just very strong (and RF pretty broken in the current state of the game, which is partly why Jugg can be disgusting)


If there is one thing that I find weird in the Trickster, it's harness the void .... it feels like they didn't know what to put there and they put some random node that adds chaos damage ... which feels a bit out of place to me.

Yah it was a mistake to say meta slave since by definition meta is what everyone is doing, but my original point was basically just to say you can't build a hybrid as tanky as pure es or pure life tank.

I pretty much agree with most of what you've said here, I definitely don't think trickster is weak at all, it's very strong. I do feel like harness the void is kind of weird.

My main thing is trickster is very good at a lot of things but none of those are things I actually want to do with trickster. I'd like trickster to be a very tanky ascendancy, something like jugg but enforcing hybrid instead of pure es or pure evasion. Maybe mom could be part of that or maybe not.

I'd also like it to be specifically good with viper strike, dual strike, or maybe even puncture just because of his voice lines and his starting gem (and well, also because I just love vs). I had a build a long time ago that did very well with puncture, that could actually kill map bosses with "one good stab" that actually worked in hc that I built specifically because of that one voice line, it was glorious while it lasted.

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Legatus1982 wrote:

I'd also like it to be specifically good with viper strike, dual strike, or maybe even puncture just because of his voice lines and his starting gem (and well, also because I just love vs). I had a build a long time ago that did very well with puncture, that could actually kill map bosses with "one good stab" that actually worked in hc that I built specifically because of that one voice line, it was glorious while it lasted.

That's more of an assassin kit. The assassin is the poison boye and as an identity an assassin who wields deadly poison is always cool.

The trickster is the closer to the spellblade archetype. An arcane spellblade if you follow.

Once we start combining the gems from the reworks we will have some really cool subclasses and combos.

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nooooodles wrote:

That's more of an assassin kit. The assassin is the poison boye and as an identity an assassin who wields deadly poison is always cool.

The trickster is the closer to the spellblade archetype. An arcane spellblade if you follow.

Once we start combining the gems from the reworks we will have some really cool subclasses and combos.

Sadly they did not include any defensive nodes in the assassin tree :p

I feel like if you're going to have a melee build it MUST be tankier by default than a normal build and thus melee shadow is trickster by default (unless you want to try melee sabo)