Path of Exile, Gameplay Criticism

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鬼殺し wrote:

Alright, but first a disclaimer: I don't speak for the devs, I merely interpret what I've been told, what I observe, and go from there.

Firstly, the most obvious reason: if QA (those who read feedback/suggestions the most) were to respond to any one thread here, this would set an interesting precedent. Why that thread over any other? Why not others? Okay, respond to others. Before you know it, it's a full-time job. Less time running QA, more time running what should be a community manager's job, really.

There is no reason why engaging with the community has to set any precedent for future engagement. If I do accept the precedent explanation as valid, then that would make fear of the player base the reason why they don't engage. I can't buy the time excuse, unless I think they don't read this forum at all, (which you have said they do) as simply reading it is a time sink.

So why doesn't the community manager do it? Because she's busy with video creation and yes, reddit lubrication. A GGG post on reddit is nowhere near as 'formal' as a GGG post here. That's just how reddit is perceived. It's logistically sound for Bex to pander to the reddit crowd. Like or not, even I see the sense in that.

This is just shake my head bad here. Why even have a feedback section on the forums. Just direct people to reddit. It's sorta crappy to hear that the one person who is supposed to be interacting with the community doesn't have time, but can make the time on a third party forum, and the reason is that they fear formality? Once again, this is because of the community, which you have assured me is not the reason.

Next, assuming not every feedback post can get a response, there's the assumption that those that do will somehow be more likely to get acted upon than those that seem 'ignored' by the devs. That's just plain untrue. Plenty of feedback posts I've seen get zero attention on here have directly affected the game's development. And with the glaring exception of the FFA trade thread and PERHAPS the lab thread, some of the busiest threads on here go nowhere development-wise.

You are assuming what other people are assuming hehe. I'll just tell you what I perceive. If no feedback is acknowledged, ever, then there is no way to tell whether it's even being read. sure, I have your assurance on this, but you are just another poster in a long line of posters. Once again , they seem to be afraid of how the community will perceive their interaction, and the ramifications.

So with all that in mind, yes, GGG's own forum for feedback/suggestions has become something of a look-don't-touch situation. And that's hard for players to take because it seems like they're being ignored. They are not. ESPECIALLY if their feedback is presented civilly and clearly, as is the case with this thread (although 13 minutes is a surprisingly long time from a dev perspective, which is why good feedback posts have summaries, bullet points, etc -- even my serious ones have sub-headings and highlighted text for skimming).

There is no incentive to put loads of time into a post you can't be sure will ever get read. cudos to this poster, but there is no way for them to know whether or not they just wasted their time. You said yourself you don't speak for anyone but yourself, so your assurances have about as much merit to most people as the guy who makes the "sod off, this league is crap, and I don't have to give any reasons" poster.

This IS a slush pile, let's not pretend otherwise. The forum lacks the convenient (but problematic) upvote system, so standing out is tough. The ways to stand out in a slush pile can be obvious if not available to everyone (throw lots of money at GGG early on thus earning a sort of reciprocal respect, provide lots of feedback, or a mixture of both) and they can be less so (be different but not wearisomely so, for example). Being rude won't help a person's case at all, even though 'the squeaky wheel gets the grease' can apply; 'squeaky wheel' is not 'loudest, most obnoxious fucker on the forum' in any case.

Great advise, but with no interaction, there is no reason to follow it, which is why we get the posts we do. I would argue that an occasional nod to a well thought out post would go quite a long way in making the feedback forum a more useful tool, and would help greatly in making the community, as a whole, a better partner..

I do know some folks who give feedback here who have no idea how much they've changed the game. Just as I know some folks who provide oodles of feedback but very rarely strike upon something the devs can actually use (me, for example).

There is no way to know this is true, simply because there is no interaction.

Finally, we've come a long way from the beta days, back when feedback was far more welcome and useful. PoE2019 is on a much more specific, guided course than PoE2012. I think while it's great for people to provide feedback of their own volition, it's when TencentGGG directly asks for feedback on something specific that we can really get in there and maybe be collectively heard. That doesn't happen much anymore. TencentGGG is an incredibly confident company compared to GGG circa 2011/12. I still see them as amateurs given they've only made one game, but it's fair to say that the various iterations of PoE since its inception are comparable to 'different games' in terms of learning and improvement.

So basically all that stuff you said before is moot? it's kind of funny actually when I think about it. "just leave the feedback forum up and let those idiots waste their time" I am kind of saddened by that, but I am really not that special to anyone but myself and my family, so I guess I can understand why my opinions would not matter here.

Either way, there it is. It has (almost) nothing to do with the player base and much more to do with where the game is now and the pitfalls of engaging with feedback at all from a dev perspective...and where the CM can have the most impact day-to-day when it comes to engaging with the day-to-day community.

From what I have just read , it seems to have most everything to do with the playerbase, or at the very least, the community that frequents the boards.

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鬼殺し wrote:

So yeah, it always comes back to money. And the money for PoE lies not in merely making the game 'better', but in selling new bits of it, give or take. There's no real financial motivation to make PoE the best ARPG it could be because it's already the best ARPG there is. That is what the fans will defend, but few will deny it could be a lot better.

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If logging out of the game is a way to avoid death, the death penalty isn't punishing death, it's punishing not logging out of the game

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Movement skills should not be replacements for running, they should be situational tools

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aldorus wrote:

Thanks for the video, I ended up agreeing to many points you raised. We probably do not resonate in the death penalty department, but hey, I had an open mind and listened to the arguments presented.
And the voice is pleasant to hear, even to non-native speakers like me.

The big questionmark, however, is - can it make any impact?

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Johny_Snow wrote:

All you say gets completely invalidated once you mention how the death penalty is a negative.