Path of Exile, Gameplay Criticism

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OverweightAnorexic wrote:

this video is actually SO PERFECT

no?

agree. some of the problems mentioned are connected with the speed (clear speed meta) the game plays nowadays. And the inevitable build guide theme: "what can't hit you, because it's already dead, can't kill you." Because it is also so much more efficient ("chaos per hour").[1]

to introduce legitimately boss mechanics a player has to "outplay" by positioning, reaction, decision making, GGG would have to take out some speed.

don't know how to do that with mobs. some strong mobs have already hard dangerous counters like nullifier.


Should be a 4.0 goalpost.



[1] ”The problem with players is that if something is the most efficient thing to do, they’ll do it because they say they’re forced to do it, and also complain that it’s boring.” https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2018/10/10/the-pain-of-designing-path-of-exiles-exquisite-balance-of-restriction-and-reward/

& https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L8vAGGitr8 - How Game Designers Protect Players From Themselves | Game Maker's Toolkit

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(4:00) Encourage certain behaviour than discourage.

GGG would have to re-tune every aspect (even if they stay true for not focus on HC). How do you discourage clear speed meta builds? It's not just nerfing movement speed and players potential damage, without affecting the average Joe. You slow down the CuteDog_'s of this game but even more so the average Joe.

But then again, there is this old interview where they say that you can play POE while also watching TV on the side. That idea has to go if you want to resolve the problems mentioned in the video.

Betrayal introduced great mechanics/attacks you can't out DPS one shot nor regen, but have to mechanically get away from. Especially w 2 3 Syndicate members. Because the damage adds up. Also that you have to destroy the totems and stuff spawns.

If they could add some of these new mechanics to every type of mob packs for example with a leader in the pack, that got these special mechanics and buffs his buddies as well, this would be an acceptable soft-break to the clear speed meta. IMHO. A compromise. Make mapping a bit harder and dangerous. That would address to a certain point the "facerolling."

I am not sure how to tackle "Rate War" specifically, but Death Penalty has to stay one way or another.

Since move speed was mentioned, I think GGG need to heavily nerf it. Or rather the potential of building up sick amounts of the stuff. It shouldn't be possible to get ~300% move speed for instance. It's just silly.

The power creep has gone so off the rails, though, that it's hard to see them getting any semblance of balance right (again?). But suffice to say, it's not really much of a game when people can zoom-zoom through maps and kill everything while holding down the right mouse button.

But fix the imbalance and super speed, and the streamers will probably get bent out of shape, which appears to be rather important to these GGG chaps. It's probably easier for GGG to not think too much about all the issues and "what could have been", and steam ahead like usual. Not like people are actually leaving in droves anyway.

At this point, suggestions and feedback are pointless and unnesessary, because Lead developer chris statet in some old video, that they collecting data, for example player retention, and that they make there dicission´s based on that.
So basicly, poe is exactly what the mayority of player´s want.

I quess that ""current gaming vibe"" also play´s a big roll in development.
They put in cards were everybody was playing cardgames, they put in Ascendancy classes because that´s what people are used to in arpg´s.

Nice Video, i agree on most of it. If it was up to me, id increase monster hp by like 20times and make fight´s more strategic with multiple skill´s required.
I´d also remove the death penalty, i personally cant understand why somebody would want such a massive frustration and yes it only lead´s to avoiding challenge.

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鬼殺し wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

You're still posting shit no one can disagree with. Didn't you recently criticize me for doing something similar?

No I didn't.

Found it! :P

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2309263/page/28#p16185467

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鬼殺し wrote:

That's not a criticism, it's an oblique observation with notes of a single wry half-cocked eyebrow.

I know. ;) That's how I read it, and also intended it here.

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Single wry. And I don't even like whiskey that much.

Dufuq?

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Pangaearocks wrote:

Since move speed was mentioned, I think GGG need to heavily nerf it.

This was mentioned by GGG, they are internally aware of the problem of move speed and clear speed presents to the overall game design and palyer experience.

Devs would nerf it, Chris would nerf it. But if they would nerf it, they know the community (some part) would be up in arms.

The compromise would be to present with 4.0 a whole package of changes that does not just address move speed and clear speed meta by reducing values. But by game design: mechanics/encounters you can't out DPS ("shapers per second"). And invulnerability phases are not an elegant solution.

Starting with mob packs. All types of mob packs in a map could be made harder when you add to a mob pack a "leader" and give the leader mechanics like, Exiles, Bloodline mods, Betrayal Syndicate members attacks/skills, special delve mobs skills, that you have to move away/around from.

Bosses and mobs could be given 1 2 3 active skills they use and auras that are a hard and soft counter to clear speed, move speed (the green tangle veins) and DPS (like a temp reflect bubble that switches on when damage is taken). Is it the most elegant solution? No.

But then again, do we want POE 4.0 to be a Dark Souls ARPG? Or just a little bit Dark Souls and some WoW Raiding?

And does GGG see it as a problem? What OP raised as problematic: POE's most talked about Achilles heels.

One more voice, (my voice), may not be enough to make any change, but I'll let it be thrown into the mix anyways.

The xp penalty in this game is one of the most frustrating and demoralizing mechanics in any game i have ever played. That is saying something considering i'm over 40 and have been playing games since the Atari 2600.

I have ping ponged with my latest character which is level 95 from the 40-70% exp mark for days now. Tonight I went from 60% to 20% in a relatively short period of time.

One of these deaths, and the death that started the domino effect was from a BARREL, yes a BARREL, in a shaped vault map,.. I went from 4700+ ES combined with nearly 4,000 life to 0 instantly from clicking on ONE,yes you heard that right, JUST ONE single barrel. over 8,000 health instantly from clicking a barrel.

I've walked away from this game from frustration on more than one occasion and taken extended long breaks. Tonight was one of those nights where i felt like it was time to just walk away again, and come back when my level of tolerance has been reset.

It's a great game, I LOVE THIS GAME, but the success of this game may be it's biggest hindrance. People are passionate and love this game and are quick to rush to it's defense at even the slightest bit of criticism. I love this game in spite of everything that the OP talked about in his video. That doesn't mean that there aren't serious problems that shouldn't be addressed.

I use to buy supporter packs on a regular basis, and on one hand I think nearly all of the changes that betrayal brought to the game are great. The new masters,the crafting, the way Zana sells more maps, the game just feels better and I would love to support the game and say "Hey great job guys", and pick up another supporter pack, but,....there is a lingering in my gut that says, NO, you can't do that, you can't keep buying supporter packs when some major core game issues, that you are not happy with are still left unchecked.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

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鬼殺し wrote:

That's not a criticism, it's an oblique observation with notes of a single wry half-cocked eyebrow.

I know. ;) That's how I read it, and also intended it here.

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Single wry. And I don't even like whiskey that much.

Dufuq?

Wry is a homophone of rye. Rye in this context is "whiskey in which a significant amount of the grain used in distillation is fermented rye."

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Jackalope_Gaming wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

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鬼殺し wrote:

That's not a criticism, it's an oblique observation with notes of a single wry half-cocked eyebrow.

I know. ;) That's how I read it, and also intended it here.

"

Single wry. And I don't even like whiskey that much.

Dufuq?

Wry is a homophone of rye. Rye in this context is "whiskey in which a significant amount of the grain used in distillation is fermented rye."

Bourbon and rye are my favorite kinds of whiskey, so I got that, but thanks. :)

I was teasing Charan for not liking whiskey that much. IT'S THE WATER OF LIFE, MAN.

But you spelled it write (you too, Jackalope), so you get brownie points for that.