Path of Exile, Gameplay Criticism

I just wish the whole XP flow could be changed somehow to avoid saying "nononono, 89% XP bar, no way I am going to go this now buddy, I won't help you this time friend" to my friends when they ask for carry.

However, because I could not invent anything better, that would still have the desired effect and GGG would even listen to it, I consider lvl 95 to be the MAX level for me and that is it. Those 5 points above will not ultimatelly change anything relevant and until now, lvl 100 was not a direct requirement to go full 40/40 on challenges until now.

So..yeah, that solves it for me.

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Millar wrote:

I'll be honest, I've maybe looked up one mechanic on the wiki. But I didn't start playing a game, to have to read math formulas on a wiki on every aspect of said game. The information displayed in game should give me an understanding of what's going on, no?

I've openly asked for criticism on my gear to help here, If it's not enough to handle a tier 8 map syndicate member. Plz Tell me why? I'm just an average gamer.

OK I never play melee classes but one thing I noticed when giving a quick look:

Where's your chaos resistance? Are you running around with -60%? If so, that by itself is already a huge cause of "random" deaths.

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Johny_Snow wrote:

2. Why working for it is bad in your mind? So you have a job like the rest of us, congratulations. When you play games you want to be the winner without putting in additional effort. Once again, congratulations. There are plenty of games to fit your canvas. What you are doing is going into a game that is not like that and trying to change it to fit your idea while screw the rest. Doesn't work this way and it shouldn't.

You missed the point, though I probably should have emphasized it once more: it is futile work that pisses me off in video games. Hence distaste for overtuned regression mechanics. Futility of work can be measured by whether you are back at where you started from after all the work is done. I'm not Sisyphean enough to find appreciation in futile work with character progression based video games. That is why I'd honestly prefer a 6 hour forced logoff to XP penalty upon death -at least in the former case player can pick off from where he ended last time. This is similar to the reasons I don't enjoy 3 month leagues, I much rather not start a character progression game from scratch and I don't feel like having enough time to progress character to their potential self-found during a temporary league time.

I know this is a standard player mentality which is frowned upon, but that's my stance anyhow.

Edit: last spring I was still n00b enough to actually grind for those unique molten strike jewels just to later on find out one could have much easier obtained them just by playing story mode again and choosing them as quest rewards. But I didn't mind the work since at least I finally got a pair. The work was not wasted in the same sense that regression mechanics play out, simply erasing days of gaming from character progression.

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Johny_Snow wrote:

Better how? For who? The suggestions make an already bloated game more complicated, is it really worth it for something the majority clearly don't have problems with?

Depends on the suggestion, which is why we should be talking about the merits of individual suggestions instead of whether we should be talking about them at all.

For example, what about the idea that you lose your instance if you die? It would prevent zerging in acts and maps. Perhaps keep the 6 attempts per map for special zones (shaper, council, Atziri etc.). Would this be an improvement? Would it be too harsh for new players? What if you would also loose the instance if you log out/disconnect? Would that bee too unfair?

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Millar wrote:

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Miathan51 wrote:

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Millar wrote:

Well my armours around 13k and its says 51% dmg reduction..

And do you have any clue how armor works? How damage of a physical hit is calculated? It's on the wiki, look it up.

The short version is that the reduction depends on the damage of the hit, so that there is no set percentage that you mitigate. The percentage in the character sheet is sort of an average. It's basically useless because it doesn't apply to any specific situation.

I'll be honest, I've maybe looked up one mechanic on the wiki. But I didn't start playing a game, to have to read math formulas on a wiki on every aspect of said game. The information displayed in game should give me an understanding of what's going on, no?

I've openly asked for criticism on my gear to help here, If it's not enough to handle a tier 8 map syndicate member. Plz Tell me why? I'm just an average gamer.

ffs.

you didn't ask for helpful criticism, you said this:

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robmafia wrote:

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Millar wrote:

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robmafia wrote:

it's likely much less than that.

Well my armours around 13k and its says 51% dmg reduction.. un fortified and I run fortify and endurance charges. Quite honestly, I cant remember a death that wasn't one hit cept maybe in a Vaal temple map where the Degen was to much for the lack of chaos res. But just take a look at my gear Mr. know it all, and tell me where Im going wrong? Farm for 10 exalts to get +1% to something? is that going make the difference? .. which brings up the Gear issue in this game that buddy didn't even want to touch base on cause its so bad. 99% of anything that drops is garbage, and maybe id be able to upgrade if it wasn't required to have res and life on every frigin piece of gear. Endgame is pretty much cookie cutter cause of this.

poe 2019.

make false claims and then double-down on them while giving attitude and namecalling the person you're mockingly asking for help.

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Khalixxa wrote:

This is my best shot at summarizing the gameplay problems of POE, how they are connected and how to solve them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3WkaqDYtXQ

(I don't talk much about item/loot related issues; only the gameplay)

Thanks for watching. I hope this can help make the game better.

I am very happy I took a moment to actually watch your video. Excellent critique. Honestly dude if you just update your brand/design on youtube and stick with this format you are going to have a fantastic channel. Good luck!

It is worth repeating about not seeing the game at all. Currently, with syndicate encounters, I just lob 3 totems and run around with defenses up hoping nothing hits me. When a figure is near me, I just stay away and run some more. How's that for gameplay? I never died vs syndicate but I also don't know what is happening or who attacks with melee/spells. It looks great with all the effects flying because I have a v good pc but I cant imagine playing this league as melee (real ones anyway) since I can't point out a target half the time.
The closest solution I can think off besides the obvious particle/fx off button, is to have a pause function. I know, it seems ridiculous but GGG's main source of finance revolves around glittery effects so I cant see the former option happening.

I like how this video was starting ... and then it turn into yet another rant ( with quite baseless claims ) about the xp penalty on death ... :/

I agree about the rate war, the screen clutter because of the way too many effects though and about party play.



In the video you say ...

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death penalty is unable to make sense because of the rate war

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when what you loose and why you lost it are so tenuously connected, it defeats the purpose

It does make sense, it's just much more unforgiving, but it still does make sense of course.
"It defeats the purpose" ? just saying so won't make it true, you need to explain why if you really have something to back this claim up.
I don't think you can because I don't think that it does defeat the purpose at all, you are getting punished because you made a mistake, that's the purpose, it's clear and it's bloody effective.



The game has been intentionally balanced around being able to log out, from the start.
It has always been the stance of GGG, mainly to allow people with unstable connections to not be too punished when problems happen ... and also to be able to have a more 'spiky' gameplay ( you can call that lazy if you want, but the adrenalie spikes are also more a thing when you can feel the risk coming at anytime and need to be ready ).

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If I'm earning xp at 30% the normal rate because my level is too high, why do I still loose 10% XP of my current level not matter what ?

That one is very easy :
If you are running content that gives you an xp penalty, it means that your level is too high, and the content is easier where you are at than where you could be ( if you could. If you can't ... well, you're already > lvl 90 and there is only the long grind to 100, which is punishing on purpose imo ).
Should you be punished less because you choose to run easier content if you mess up something ? why would that be a thing ? if you are running easier content, and are dying, you have even less excuse for it, you made a mistake in 'easier' conditions, and it's equally 'punishable' imho.



The part about the section's size on the wiki is quite silly as it's really irrelevant.
1) GGG does not make the wiki
2) There is an index at the top of the page and "Death" is literally the second element.
3) The death penalty does not need to be complicated, there is no optimization, there is no calculation, it's clear, and that's a good thing. The xp gain is relative to the area, and people are going to try to optimize it, nothing amazing about this.

It looks like you are just trying to find stuff to support your dislike of the xp penalty on death, but using irrelevant and silly elements like this are not going to help you, it's probably not doing your video any good.

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The fact that you invested this kind of time into deciding how experience should be gained is as good as a confession : you know that the experience loss part is undercooked

No, just saying it out loud won't make it true.
You realize that HC players racing also need to think about what content they want to run and what are the most optimized gains ? How do they fit into your rant ?
-> They don't, because that was just a rant without an actual base there. If there would be no xp penalty on death, people would likely still be looking for an optimized way to gain experience ...

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Needing to actually pay attention to mechanics has become a sign that you're playing the game wrong.

No it hasn't, it looks like you haven't done any high level encounter, but people run shaper / uber elder / uber Atziri even in HC, and for SC players not necessarily when they xp bar is at 0%.
And those fights are completely mechanical.

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The game cannot produce a proper challenge

Yes it can, it's not because you haven't done any of the endgame challenging encounters that there aren't any.
At this point, you are being uninformed, and uninformed feedback is much less relevant than informed feedback.

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loosing a portal is already a pretty solid penalty [...]

You lost all credibility at this point.
Efficient people run maps in one portal, two maximum. Loosing one portal would be absolutely meaningless but for a handful of specific encounters pretty much ( encounters that you haven't done, for many or most I would even go as far as saying that you have never even tried them, but I might be wrong about that ).

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鬼殺し wrote:

Yes, you completely nailed it with how the death xp means nothing right after you level. I've discussed this with the devs on numerous occasions, specifically Chris. All it does is force really boring, predictable exp grind before you level, and after, THEN you play like you actually want to, possibly even enjoying the game briefly until you get too much experience into that next level and don't want to die again. And then you're back to the boring old grind.

You are also dead right that they implemented this poorly. Even D2, *Even D2*, had a way to get experience back post-death beyond just playing via corpse runs.

But then ... how is that a bad thing ?
What is the problem ?

This gives you objectives, clear targets. Why should one not feel rewarded/relieved after reaching such a threshold ?

Boring grinds before leveling ? No, not necessarily, this is just the only thing in SC that gives any actual risk to encounters, why should not people be scared if they take risk ? They should, of course they should.


Regarding "corpse run", it's obvious that a similar system would be pointless in PoE, we are in 2019 in PoE, the area of "I want no frustration and if you make me walk through an area without rewards flowing everywhere for more than 20 sec I will complain !!", and there we are, playing a game with portals everywhere, where dying lets you come back at the last 'checkpoint' (*puke*), where traveling as no meaning and you just instantly get everywhere with 0 effort, there is no cost to get anywhere.
so ... a corpse run without any cost associated to it ? what is the point ? why not just give the xp back to the player directly ?
There is only one case for this to have any meaning : boss arenas, if the process of getting your xp back would make you a sitting duck for enough time ... but then the "zerg until level 100" would be even more a thing because you can skip bosses quite easily now.

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鬼殺し wrote:

Well, the answer to that lies in the same response we get when we suggest a QoL update that does nothing but go back and fully overhaul all the beta-level residue in the game (and there's so much). That doesn't make money. Not the same way a new expansion with a new gimmick, new skills, new content will. I wish I could disagree but they're the ones doing the math, the ones who, if they get that math wrong, can stand to lose a lot of money. And, well, at the end of, GGG is, was and always will be a for-profit company, even if their origins lie in something not unlike hefty donations based mainly on faith and promises. (FTR I never considered them donations, because they're not tax-deductible and I always knew precisely what I was getting when I clicked 'buy'.)

That is a part of the big picture that they are the only one really seeing.

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Khalixxa wrote:

I tried very hard (and failed) to prevent people from thinking this is what I meant. I did point out negative aspects of death penalty, but I also pointed out negative aspects about the other topics and did not mean to imply that they are entirely negative or that they should be removed cold turkey.

Yet I don't think that you mentioned a single positive thing about the death penalty ... did you ?


PS : there is no "life drain" in path of exile.
PPS : You're speaking a lot in an almost condescending manner, as if GGG has no idea what they are doing, and haven't thought about everything that you have said many times and much more than you've already thought.
Don't get me wrong, giving feedback isn't bad, but you're missing the big picture here, they have a much better idea of that big picture than you.
Only on top of that, they have much more information about what the playerbase actually wants ( not you, the playerbase as a whole ), how they could react, and what would be the implication of doing x and y changes.
I'm all for slowing the game down for example ... but I don't want the game to die, so I'd rather have it fast than not have the possibility to play it at all.

I just wish they'd make everyone happy and give them their no death penalty league. Whats the big deal? One cant even make the old lame "divide community" argument anymore with 2 play modes, 8 leagues and hundreds of privates. Issue seems to come up enough like every day it's worth it. Wonder how many dollars they've lost not appealing to consumer.

Needs to really be 3 play modes.

HC - dead

Mid core - lose level on death no zerging after you reaches level milestone like virtually all build guide and every SC does

Soft core - Cast on Death Portal is the shit man!